Author: stuart taylor
Date: 07:08:52 05/16/01
Go up one level in this thread
On May 16, 2001 at 07:53:07, Uri Blass wrote: >On May 16, 2001 at 07:40:23, Jeroen van Dorp wrote: > >>On May 15, 2001 at 20:03:14, stuart taylor wrote: >> >>>>Some people might be too snobish to stoop so low as to rely on a computer over >>>his own mind. >>>Or simply, obstinate and closed-minded as to how good computers can be. >> >> >>Maybe it's not being snobbish, or denying the excellence of a computer program, >>but just missing the fun.... >> >>Over at playchess.de a few computer cheaters were discovered, and that while >>they have the opportunity to play advanced or even computer chess in a separate >>competition. >>It showed a guy playing over 130 games with assistance from Fritz, under four >>accounts. He must have been busy operating, and he must have liked it, but >>(especially because on this site you DO have the opportunity to use a computer >>in two other leagues) people STILL use computer assistance in the *only* league >>they shouldn't - really spoils MY fun. >> >>Discussing the merits of cheating/computer assistance someone told that blunders >>never were a part of correspondence chess. Very true, but the suggestion rises >>that all correspondence games should end in a draw, because of no tactical >>mistakes. >> >>Not true, as small tactical mistakes - sometimes met with some nice novelties - >>*are* a part of correspondence chess. Playing as a human gives you the >>possibility to thrive on those weaknesses, and let the opponent stray. >> >>> >>>I, actually believe I could beat many computer users through intelligent use of >>>the same programs. But It takes a great amount of time and effort. But on wings. >>>(using the computer is like adding wings). >> >> >>With today's computer chess programs, you have to rely on 'horizon effects, >>unfavourable 'closed position', 'anti-computer play', almost completely >>"removing" the game of chess against a human. It's very well possible to draw or >>beat a computer program when you're at a higher level in correspondence chess. >> >>Your analogy "adding wings" gives the problem (for me) of legalizing "computer >>cheating" in correspondence chess a face: people in high jump trying to jump as >>high as possible with their body are allowed to use a plane to jump. >>Of course the world record will be a jump of over 30,000 feet, no doubt, but >>it's no human high jump anymore. >> >>When I see Uri citing the game, with the names of the 'players' in it, I realize >>it has nothing to do with human correspondence chess anymore. >> >>He likes it that way, and I'm happy to, but I won't enter those competitions >>(anymore). Just because (as I already said) I can stay safely at home and play >>against all the programs I have. Less than $500 - 700 and you have them all. >>It's very rewarding to see after a game that my computer programs weren't able >>to better my achievement in their analysis. Maybe I would have come to the same >>moves using all my computer programs, but it was *me* taking the initiative, and >>me finding the solution to an endfame I surely would screw up over the board. >> >>*I* think it's too bad seemingly human correspondence chess has disappeared. > > >Human correspondence chess did not disapear. > >You can play against humans who do not use computers in the low level. >I believe that many of my opponents in the previous stage did not use a computer >and it is a fact that a big part of my opponents did tactical errors. > >Vaichel is better than them and he did not do a serious error(the score never >changed by more than 1 pawn after his moves but Deep Fritz was clearly enough to >beat him) > >Uri About ten years ago, I was playing correspondence in the iccf (Israel) and the head organizer (who died, I believe) said I can certainly use a computer, but It wouldn't get me very far. I think he was wrong, even then, and I was devising lovely traps which I believed my big headed opponents were falling into, and I was really going to teach them a lesson (so far, they believed they were winning, and that I was a stupid player). But unfortunately It took me too long to keep posting back my replies, and it got left in the middle. You had to play too many games at a time. But I thought the organizer had this (Israeli) snobish attitude. S.Taylor
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