Author: Steven Schwartz
Date: 09:08:48 04/16/98
Go up one level in this thread
On April 16, 1998 at 11:23:08, Andreas Stabel wrote: >On April 16, 1998 at 09:01:49, Steven Schwartz wrote: > >>On April 16, 1998 at 08:02:15, Andreas Stabel wrote: >> >>>When I was going to vote today I was very disappointed to notice that >>>the voting was set up to go against Fritz. I have not entered this >>>debate earlier but have with interesst read the arguments for and >>>against the correctness of the SSDF results. >>> >>>The question to be answered at the poll was: >>>1) Fritz 5 had an unfair advantage >>>2) The Fritz 5 rating is accurate with respect to the other programs >>>3) Abstain >>> >>>You had to select one of the above. >>> >>>Now everybody can see that alternative 2 is not the opposite of >>>alternative 1, so even if you think that Fritz 5 did NOT have an >>>unfair advantage, you wouldn't agree with alternative 2. As almost >>>everybody here has commented the SSDF results are NOT accurate, so >>>most persons, myself included, would hesitate to select alternative 2 >>>even though we clearly disagree with alternative 1. The result of this >>>voting is therefore absolutely worthless and the poll should be stopped. >>> >>>For the record, the only objective way to conduct a poll with predefined >>>alternatives is to have all sensible alternatives listed or at least to >>>have opposite views as alternatives. >>> >>>Still I very much appresiate the work done by the CCC and enjoy this >>>site very much. >>> >>>Best regards >>>Andreas Stabel >> >>Hi Andreas, >>We tussled with this question for weeks and knew that no >>matter how it was worded, someone would be offended. We >>really did try our best, and, in fact, when we wrote the >>email informing everyone that the vote was beginning, >>we indicated that we were not inplying or inferring that >>SSDF and/or Chessbase did anything intentionally. This pole >>will be over next Wednesday, and people are welcome to >>debate whether the question was fairly worded or whether >>the results have any meaning. Nobody here will be offended >>in any way because we tried as best we could. >> >>However, I have a suggestion. I would like to see a group >>of members organized and responsible for the creation of fair >>and interesting questions upon which everyone can debate and >>vote. I am not quite sure how these people should be selected, >>but I believe the group: >> a) Should be five or fewer so as not to be bogged down >> b) Should not have any commercial interests in computer chess >>or any agendas that may hinder their objectivity. >> c) Should have its discussions privately via email and >>submit the questions and answers after they are finished > >I see your problem, but as I see it, it is very simple. >If you want multiple alternatives: >1) Fritz 5 had an unfair advantage >2) Fritz 5 did NOT have an unfair advantage >3) Abstain > >1) The Fritz 5 rating is accurate with respect to the other programs >2) The Fritz 5 rating is NOT accurate with respect to the other programs >3) Abstain > >or you could ask it as a list of yes/no/don't know questions: >1) Did Fritz 5 have an unfair advantage ? >2) Is the Fritz 5 rating accurate with respect to the other programs ? > >Note that the questions themselves may be biased. I feel that the >question: >Did Fritz 5 have an unfair advantage ? >is much more loaded and biased, because it hints that Fritz may have had >an >unfair advantage and uses the emotionally loaded word unfair in >connection >with Fritz 5, than f.ex. the question: >Do you think the top programs in the SSDF list were tested in a fair way >? > >I want to make clear that I don't think that CCC intentionally made the >poll biased. I only want to point out that I think they accidentally >were >made biased and that the poll therefore is of little or no value. > >Regards >Andreas Stabel No argument here. Your choices are better than ours. Do you think my idea of a small committee to formulate questions and answers is a good one. Would you volunteer? - Steve
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