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Subject: Re: Voting unfair !!!

Author: Steven Schwartz

Date: 09:08:48 04/16/98

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On April 16, 1998 at 11:23:08, Andreas Stabel wrote:

>On April 16, 1998 at 09:01:49, Steven Schwartz wrote:
>
>>On April 16, 1998 at 08:02:15, Andreas Stabel wrote:
>>
>>>When I was going to vote today I was very disappointed to notice that
>>>the voting was set up to go against Fritz. I have not entered this
>>>debate earlier but have with interesst read the arguments for and
>>>against the correctness of the SSDF results.
>>>
>>>The question to be answered at the poll was:
>>>1) Fritz 5 had an unfair advantage
>>>2) The Fritz 5 rating is accurate with respect to the other programs
>>>3) Abstain
>>>
>>>You had to select one of the above.
>>>
>>>Now everybody can see that alternative 2 is not the opposite of
>>>alternative 1, so even if you think that Fritz 5 did NOT have an
>>>unfair advantage, you wouldn't agree with alternative 2. As almost
>>>everybody here has commented the SSDF results are NOT accurate, so
>>>most persons, myself included, would hesitate to select alternative 2
>>>even though we clearly disagree with alternative 1. The result of this
>>>voting is therefore absolutely worthless and the poll should be stopped.
>>>
>>>For the record, the only objective way to conduct a poll with predefined
>>>alternatives is to have all sensible alternatives listed or at least to
>>>have opposite views as alternatives.
>>>
>>>Still I very much appresiate the work done by the CCC and enjoy this
>>>site very much.
>>>
>>>Best regards
>>>Andreas Stabel
>>
>>Hi Andreas,
>>We tussled with this question for weeks and knew that no
>>matter how it was worded, someone would be offended. We
>>really did try our best, and, in fact, when we wrote the
>>email informing everyone that the vote was beginning,
>>we indicated that we were not inplying or inferring that
>>SSDF and/or Chessbase did anything intentionally. This pole
>>will be over next Wednesday, and people are welcome to
>>debate whether the question was fairly worded or whether
>>the results have any meaning. Nobody here will be offended
>>in any way because we tried as best we could.
>>
>>However, I have a suggestion. I would like to see a group
>>of members organized and responsible for the creation of fair
>>and interesting questions upon which everyone can debate and
>>vote. I am not quite sure how these people should be selected,
>>but I believe the group:
>>     a) Should be five or fewer so as not to be bogged down
>>     b) Should not have any commercial interests in computer chess
>>or any agendas that may hinder their objectivity.
>>     c) Should have its discussions privately via email and
>>submit the questions and answers after they are finished
>
>I see your problem, but as I see it, it is very simple.
>If you want multiple alternatives:
>1) Fritz 5 had an unfair advantage
>2) Fritz 5 did NOT have an unfair advantage
>3) Abstain
>
>1) The Fritz 5 rating is accurate with respect to the other programs
>2) The Fritz 5 rating is NOT accurate with respect to the other programs
>3) Abstain
>
>or you could ask it as a list of yes/no/don't know questions:
>1) Did Fritz 5 have an unfair advantage ?
>2) Is the Fritz 5 rating accurate with respect to the other programs ?
>
>Note that the questions themselves may be biased. I feel that the
>question:
>Did Fritz 5 have an unfair advantage ?
>is much more loaded and biased, because it hints that Fritz may have had
>an
>unfair advantage and uses the emotionally loaded word unfair in
>connection
>with Fritz 5, than f.ex. the question:
>Do you think the top programs in the SSDF list were tested in a fair way
>?
>
>I want to make clear that I don't think that CCC intentionally made the
>poll biased. I only want to point out that I think they accidentally
>were
>made biased and that the poll therefore is of little or no value.
>
>Regards
>Andreas Stabel

No argument here. Your choices are better than ours.
Do you think my idea of a small committee to formulate
questions and answers is a good one. Would you volunteer?
- Steve



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