Author: Uri Blass
Date: 00:47:13 05/29/01
Go up one level in this thread
On May 29, 2001 at 01:16:23, Dann Corbit wrote:
>On May 29, 2001 at 00:58:44, Jouni Uski wrote:
>
>>[D]r1b1Rbk1/pp3p2/2np3p/2qp2p1/3N4/1QPB3P/PP3PPB/6K1 w - -
>>
>>(Sorry if this is discussed already.)
>>In this position Ferret played Ne6!!, which I found really stunning. I tested
>>position with many engines and long time - no one including Gambit Tiger plays
>>it...
>>Was it book? Is may be Nb5 even stronger.
>>
>>BTW Congratulations for Bruce to win with outdated hardware CCT3!
>>
>>Jouni
>
>Analysis by Yace:
>
>white ( 1): test bruce.ci
>title position 1
>Stored 0 learned positions into hash table
>solution Ne6 Nb5
>usetime = 9998.00, mintime = 9998.00 maxtime = 9998.00 tl 9998.00 ml 0
> 27 0.001 -0.95 1t 1.Rxc8 Rxc8 2.Qxb7 Nxd4 3.cxd4 {-150}
> 53 0.002 0.13 1t 1.Nxc6 bxc6 {-80}
> 143 0.002 0.22 1t 1.Qd1 Nxd4 2.cxd4 Qxd4 3.Bxd6 {-80}
> 252 0.003 0.37 1t 1.Bf5 Nxd4 2.cxd4 {-80}
> 430 0.004 0.51 1t 1.Ne2 {-80}
> 441 0.005 0.51 1. 1.Ne2 {-80}
> 661 0.005 0.45 2t 1.Ne2 b6 {-80}
> 1457 0.008 0.45 2. 1.Ne2 b6 {-80}
> 2785 0.013 0.40 3t 1.Ne2 d4 2.Bg6 {-80}
> 11077 0.042 0.43 3t+ 1.Nb5 a5
> 11273 0.043 0.46 3t 1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bf5 {-80}
> 11338 0.044 0.46 3. 1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bf5 {-80}
> 14973 0.055 0.42 4t 1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bf5 a6 {-80}
> 22012 0.075 0.43 4t+ 1.Qd1 Qxd4 2.cxd4 Nxd4 {501}
> 23047 0.079 0.46 4t 1.Qd1 Nxd4 2.cxd4 Qb4 3.Bf5 {-80}
> 48476 0.135 0.46 4. 1.Qd1 Nxd4 2.cxd4 Qb4 3.Bf5 {-80}
> 64090 0.176 0.35 5t 1.Qd1 Nxd4 2.cxd4 Qc6 3.Qe1 b5 {-80}
> 67196 0.184 0.36 5t+ 1.Nb5 Nd4 2.cxd4 Qxd4 {180}
> 79874 0.219 0.67 5t 1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bc2 Nc4 3.Nd4 {-80}
> 142589 0.325 0.67 5. 1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bc2 Nc4 3.Nd4 {-80}
> 210311 0.516 0.64 6t 1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Qd1 f6 3.b4 Qc6 {-80}
> 387948 0.859 0.65 6t+ 1.Qc2 Nxd4 2.cxd4 Qxd4 3.Bxd6 Kg7 4.Bxf8+ Kg8
> {270}
> 394571 0.874 0.70 6t 1.Qc2 Nxd4 2.cxd4 Qxc2 3.Bxc2 Kg7 4.Bf5 Bxf5
> 5.Rxa8 {70}
> 522542 1.162 0.70 6. 1.Qc2 Nxd4 2.cxd4 Qxc2 3.Bxc2 Kg7 4.Bf5 Bxf5
> 5.Rxa8 {70}
> 575743 1.276 0.54 7t 1.Qc2 Nxd4 2.cxd4 Qxc2 3.Bxc2 b6 4.Bxd6 Bb7
> 5.Bb8 {0}
> 654504 1.466 0.55 7t+ 1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bf5 Bxf5 3.Rxa8 Nd3 4.Rxf8+ Kg7
> {420}
> 729294 1.671 0.64 7t 1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bc2 Nc4 3.Nd4 Ne5 4.Bf5 {-80}
> 1310670 2.757 0.64 7. 1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bc2 Nc4 3.Nd4 Ne5 4.Bf5 {-80}
> 1701167 3.646 0.87 8t 1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bxe5 dxe5 3.Nc7 e4 4.Nxa8 exd3
> 5.Qd1 {60}
> 3033464 6.003 0.87 8. 1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bxe5 dxe5 3.Nc7 e4 4.Nxa8 exd3
> 5.Qd1 {60}
> 3788322 7.587 1.05 9t 1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bxe5 dxe5 3.Nc7 e4 4.Nxa8 exd3
> 5.Rd8 b5 6.Rxd5 {140}
> 7542582 13.952 1.05 9. 1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bxe5 dxe5 3.Nc7 e4 4.Nxa8 exd3
> 5.Rd8 b5 6.Rxd5 {140}
> 10307300 19.432 1.44 10t 1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bxe5 dxe5 3.Nc7 e4 4.Bxe4 dxe4
> 5.Nxa8 Qc6 6.Rd8 Bd7 {140}
> 18434843 33.211 1.44 10. 1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bxe5 dxe5 3.Nc7 e4 4.Bxe4 dxe4
> 5.Nxa8 Qc6 6.Rd8 Bd7 {140}
> 23279977 42.811 1.55 11t 1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bxe5 dxe5 3.Nc7 e4 4.Bxe4 dxe4
> 5.Nxa8 Qc6 6.Rd8 Bd7 7.Qd1 {140}
> 45474172 1:19.6 1.55 11. 1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bxe5 dxe5 3.Nc7 e4 4.Bxe4 dxe4
> 5.Nxa8 Qc6 6.Rd8 Bd7 7.Qd1 {140}
> 62641271 1:54.8 1.45 12t 1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bxe5 dxe5 3.Nc7 e4 4.Bxe4 dxe4
> 5.Nxa8 Qc6 6.Rd8 Kg7 7.Qd1 Bc5 {140}
> 149487856 4:44.5 1.46 12t+ 1.Ne6 fxe6 2.Qd1 Ne7 3.Qh5 Kg7 4.Bh7 Qb6
> 5.Rxe7+ Kf6 6.Bxd6 g4 7.Qf7+ Kg5 8.Qg8+ Bg7
> 9.Rxg7+ Kf6 {350}
> 164825256 5:17.6 1.73 12t 1.Ne6 fxe6 2.Qd1 Bd7 3.Rxa8 Ne7 4.h4 Nc8 5.hxg5
> hxg5 6.Qh5 Be7 7.Qh7+ Kf8 8.Bg6 {80}
> 176964457 5:41.1 1.73 12. 1.Ne6 fxe6 2.Qd1 Bd7 3.Rxa8 Ne7 4.h4 Nc8 5.hxg5
> hxg5 6.Qh5 Be7 7.Qh7+ Kf8 8.Bg6 {80}
> 308712897 10:34.3 1.89 13t 1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 d4 3.Qxb7 dxc3 4.bxc3 Kg7
> 5.Bb5 Nd4 6.Qb8 Nxb5 7.Qxf8+ Kg6 8.a4 Nxc3
> 9.Bxd6 {160}
>
>Nb5 is yet another insipid, uninspiring, computer-chess pawn grab. Ne6 is a
>breathtaking GM style move that leaves Nb5 wallowing in the mire (to me anyway
>-- it may be that I simply don't see the beauty of Nb5).
>
>Ne6 is *grotesquely* superior in my book.
I believe that Ne6 is not GM style move.
There is no reason to calculate complex lines of Ne6 when there is a simple way
to win material and the games.
I believe that GM calculate complex lines when they need them to win the game
but they are smart enough not to do it when there is another simple way to win
because the target in the game is to win and it is better to be more sure of
winning.
When you calculate a complex line there is a risk that you are wrong so it is a
bad idea to do it when you have another good option.
Here is some analysis of Deep Fritz
After 15:46 on P8000 I asked it for next best
You can see that from Deep Fritz's point of view both moves win material when
Nb5 wins slightly more material
Ne6 wins 1.88 pawns at depth 15 when Nb5 wins 2.41 pawns at depth 15 and 2.28
pawns at depth 16.
New position
r1b1Rbk1/pp3p2/2np3p/2qp2p1/3N4/1QPB3P/PP3PPB/6K1 w - - 0 1
Analysis by Deep Fritz:
1.Rxc8!
³ (-0.34) Depth: 1/9 00:00:00
1.Nxc6 Qxc6 2.Bb5 Qc5 3.Bg3
± (1.13) Depth: 4/17 00:00:00 10kN
1.Nxc6 Qxc6 2.Bb5 Qc5 3.Bg3
± (1.13) Depth: 4/17 00:00:00 10kN
1.Nxc6 Qxc6 2.Bb5 Qc5 3.Bg3
± (1.13) Depth: 4/17 00:00:00 10kN
1.Nxc6 Qxc6 2.Bb5 Qc5 3.Bg3
± (1.13) Depth: 4/17 00:00:00 10kN
1.Nxc6 Qxc6 2.Bb5 Qc5 3.Bg3
± (1.13) Depth: 4/17 00:00:00 10kN
1.Nxc6 Qxc6 2.Bb5 Qc5 3.Bg3
± (1.13) Depth: 4/17 00:00:00 10kN
1.Nxc6 Qxc6 2.Bb5 Qc5 3.Bg3
± (1.13) Depth: 4/17 00:00:00 10kN
1.Nxc6 Qxc6 2.Bb5 Qc5 3.Bg3
± (1.13) Depth: 4/17 00:00:00 10kN
1.Nxc6 Qxc6 2.Bb5 Qc5 3.Bg3
± (1.13) Depth: 4/17 00:00:00 10kN
1.Nxc6 Qxc6 2.Bb5 Qc5 3.Bg3
± (1.13) Depth: 4/17 00:00:00 10kN
1.Nxc6 Qxc6 2.Bb5 Qc5 3.Bg3
± (1.13) Depth: 4/17 00:00:00 10kN
1.Nxc6 Qxc6 2.Bb5 Qc5 3.Bg3
± (1.13) Depth: 4/17 00:00:00 10kN
1.Nxc6 Qxc6 2.Bb5 Qc5 3.Bg3
± (1.13) Depth: 4/17 00:00:00 10kN
1.Nxc6 Qxc6 2.Bb5 Qc5 3.Bg3
± (1.13) Depth: 4/17 00:00:00 10kN
1.Nxc6 Qxc6 2.Bb5 Qc5 3.Bd7 Kg7 4.Bxc8
± (1.06) Depth: 5/14 00:00:00 20kN
1.Nxc6 Qxc6 2.Bb5 Qc5 3.Bd7 d4 4.Bxc8 Rxc8 5.cxd4
± (0.97) Depth: 6/23 00:00:00 41kN
1.Nb5!
± (1.00) Depth: 6/23 00:00:00 57kN
1.Nb5! Ne5 2.Bxe5 dxe5 3.Rxe5 Be6
± (1.06) Depth: 6/23 00:00:00 61kN
1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bxe5 dxe5 3.Rxe5 Be6 4.Nd4 Qc7
± (1.06) Depth: 7/23 00:00:00 108kN
1.Nxc6!
± (1.09) Depth: 7/23 00:00:00 125kN
1.Nxc6 Qxc6 2.Bb5 Qc5 3.Bg3 a6 4.Bd7 b5 5.Bxc8 Rxc8 6.Rxc8
± (1.09) Depth: 8/22 00:00:00 306kN
1.Nb5!
± (1.13) Depth: 8/22 00:00:00 339kN
1.Nb5! Ne5 2.Bxe5 dxe5 3.Nc7 e4 4.Nxa8 exd3 5.Qd1
+- (1.47) Depth: 8/23 00:00:00 436kN
1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bxe5 dxe5 3.Nc7 e4 4.Nxa8 exd3 5.Qd1 Bf5
± (1.38) Depth: 9/25 00:00:01 774kN
1.Nb5!
+- (1.69) Depth: 10/25 00:00:02 1694kN
1.Nb5! Ne5 2.Bxe5 dxe5 3.Nc7 Bd7 4.Rxa8 Qxc7 5.Rxa7 Bc6 6.Ra8
+- (1.94) Depth: 10/25 00:00:03 1903kN
1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bxe5 dxe5 3.Nc7 e4 4.Bxe4 dxe4 5.Nxa8 Qc6 6.Rd8 Be6
+- (1.78) Depth: 11/30 00:00:05 3756kN
1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bxe5 dxe5 3.Nc7 e4 4.Bxe4 dxe4 5.Nxa8 Qc6 6.Rd8 Be6
+- (1.75) Depth: 12/32 00:00:13 9307kN
1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bxe5 dxe5 3.Nc7 Bd7 4.Rxa8 Qxc7 5.Qxd5 Be6 6.Qb5 Bd7
+- (2.03) Depth: 13/33 00:00:51 34338kN
1.Nb5!
+- (2.34) Depth: 14/35 00:01:56 76592kN
1.Nb5! Ne5 2.Bxe5 dxe5 3.Nc7 Qc6 4.Rxf8+ Kxf8 5.Nxa8 Kg7 6.Qa3
+- (2.38) Depth: 14/35 00:02:11 86881kN
1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bxe5 dxe5 3.Nc7 Rb8 4.Na6 Qc6 5.Rxf8+ Kxf8 6.Qa3+ Kg7
+- (2.41) Depth: 15/39 00:05:07 206460kN
1.Nb5 Ne5 2.Bxe5 dxe5 3.Nc7 Bd7 4.Rxa8 Qxc7 5.Qxd5 Kg7 6.Qe4 f5
+- (2.28) Depth: 16/41 00:12:21 500390kN
1.Rxc8!
³ (-0.34) Depth: 1/9 00:15:46
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 d4 3.cxd4
+- (1.84) Depth: 4/12 00:15:46 1kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 d4 3.cxd4
+- (1.84) Depth: 4/12 00:15:46 1kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 d4 3.cxd4
+- (1.84) Depth: 4/12 00:15:46 1kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 d4 3.cxd4
+- (1.84) Depth: 4/12 00:15:46 1kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 d4 3.cxd4
+- (1.84) Depth: 4/12 00:15:46 1kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 d4 3.cxd4
+- (1.84) Depth: 4/12 00:15:46 1kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 d4 3.cxd4
+- (1.84) Depth: 4/12 00:15:46 1kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 d4 3.cxd4
+- (1.84) Depth: 4/12 00:15:46 1kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 d4 3.cxd4
+- (1.84) Depth: 4/12 00:15:46 1kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 d4 3.cxd4
+- (1.84) Depth: 4/12 00:15:46 1kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 d4 3.cxd4
+- (1.84) Depth: 4/12 00:15:46 1kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 d4 3.cxd4
+- (1.84) Depth: 4/12 00:15:46 1kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 d4 3.cxd4
+- (1.84) Depth: 4/12 00:15:46 1kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 d4 3.cxd4
+- (1.84) Depth: 4/12 00:15:46 1kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 d4 3.cxd4
+- (1.84) Depth: 4/12 00:15:46 1kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 d4 3.cxd4
+- (1.84) Depth: 4/12 00:15:46 1kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 d4 3.c4
+- (1.78) Depth: 5/15 00:15:46 6kN
1.Ne6!
+- (2.09) Depth: 6/17 00:15:46 14kN
1.Ne6! Bxe6 2.Rxa8 Na5
+- (2.13) Depth: 6/18 00:15:46 16kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 Ne5 3.Be2 d4 4.Qxb7 dxc3
+- (1.94) Depth: 7/20 00:15:46 45kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 Ne5 3.Bxe5 dxe5 4.Qxb7 e4 5.Bb5
+- (1.97) Depth: 8/20 00:15:47 108kN
1.Ne6--
+- (1.66) Depth: 9/23 00:15:47 333kN
1.Ne6--
+- (1.66) Depth: 9/27 00:15:47 364kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 Ne5 3.Bxe5 dxe5 4.Qxb7 e4 5.Bc2 a5
+- (1.91) Depth: 10/23 00:15:48 1069kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 Ne5 3.Bf1 d4 4.cxd4 Qxd4 5.Qxb7 Bd5 6.Qxa7
+- (1.91) Depth: 11/27 00:15:51 2880kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 Ne5 3.Bxe5 dxe5 4.Qxb7 e4 5.Be2 e3 6.f3 a5
+- (1.94) Depth: 12/28 00:15:58 7511kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 Ne5 3.Bxe5 dxe5 4.Qxb7 e4 5.Be2 e3
+- (1.78) Depth: 13/34 00:16:17 20891kN
1.Ne6!
+- (2.09) Depth: 14/34 00:17:23 63560kN
1.Ne6 Bxe6 2.Rxa8 b6 3.Qc2 a5 4.Qe2 Kg7 5.a3 Bd7 6.Bg3
+- (1.88) Depth: 15/38 00:19:45 159436kN
(Blass, Tel-Aviv 29.05.2001)
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