Author: Ian Osgood
Date: 11:16:06 05/29/01
Go up one level in this thread
On May 29, 2001 at 13:06:07, Christophe Theron wrote: >On May 29, 2001 at 00:36:53, Ian Osgood wrote: > >>On May 27, 2001 at 19:41:04, Christophe Theron wrote: >> >>>On May 27, 2001 at 16:55:02, Ian Osgood wrote: >>> >>>>On May 25, 2001 at 04:29:36, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 25, 2001 at 01:29:11, Mike S. wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>I think it would be interesting to see if Palm Tiger is able to win a longer >>>>>>match against the NOVAG Sapphire II (I would expect that, but the Sapphire has >>>>>>proven superior so far against other handhelds or travel computers, according to >>>>>>info I have read from various sources). >>>>>> >>>>>>I wouldn't be surprised if the result would be quite narrow though... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I really don't know and I would really like to know. >>>>> >>>>>The Sapphire II is rated 2012 by the SSDF (that means 2112 in the previous >>>>>versions of the list, which is more accurate for lower ratings). >>>>> >>>>>So normally Tiger for Palm should be able to at least equal the Sapphire. >>>> >>>>So far, my Sapphire II has 2.5 - 0.5 against Palm Tiger at 5 minute games. >>>>Tiger is overclocked to 28MHz on a Palm IIIe, both have hash tables on, >>>>permanent brain disabled. Looks like the Sapphire II is out thinking Palm Tiger >>>>by about a ply (3000 nps vs 500 nps). >>>> I plan to try some 30 minute games with >>>>permanent brain later this week. (This would be easier if Palm Tiger had some >>>>sort of serial interface so that I could adapt it to WinBoard like I have my >>>>Sapphire II.) >>> >>> >>>Unfortunately I'm not planning to work on this. Too few people would be >>>interested in this. You would need to own two Palms, or a Palm and a compatible >>>device (Sapphire?), that would attract probably no more than 10 customers. Too >>>much work for too little interest. >> >>I was hoping it might not be too much work, since you have already implemented a >>terminal-like interface. But of course it is up to you. > > > >Having a terminal-like interface does not help here. > >I would have to write a transmission protocol from scratch, and preferably one >that the Sapphire understands. > >That's too much work and testing time, and I do not even have a Sapphire, so I >don't see that happening. I'm sorry, I wasn't beeing clear. I meant simply to blast the existing Chess Tiger output to the serial port and read commands from the serial port. It would be up to me to develop a WinBoard adapter which would relay and translate commands between WinBoard and Palm Tiger. I have done this already for the Sapphire II, Deep Green (a program for the Newton MessagePad), and my port of crafty to the iPAQ. This would allow both automated play on the chess servers and match play between other WinBoard compatible programs. It would also be easy to extend the adapter (which could of course run standalone) to feed test suites to Palm Tiger. So I imagined the only effort on your part being to learn the PalmOS serial port API's, and add a command to switch "serial port mode" on and off. Again, no biggie if you don't do it; neither PocketChess nor ChessGenius was willing to do this either. >>And an update: at 30 minute sudden death, with hash and permanent brain, Chess >>Tiger achieved two draws against SapphireII. In both games, Tiger obtained an >>advantage in the endgame (R-N in one, Q-R in the other) but Sapphire II used >>excellent endgame technique to hold the draw. Search depths seem to have >>equalized (probably due to Tiger's modern techniques such as null-move etc.), >>with the advantage going to whoever managed to predict the last move. >> >>Next I'll do 10 and 15 minute games. > > > >OK. Please keep us informed. My following message has PGN logs for the nine games I've played so far. >(...) > >Additionally, maybe the way Crafty is designed does not make it a good candidate >for 32 bits handhelds, because it uses a lot of 64 bits integers. > >It is certainly a very bad choice for the Palm, which has a 16/32 bits >processor: it is able to process 32 bits integers directly, but the RAM bus in >only 16 bits wide, so it takes more cycles to read and write 32 bits integers >from/to memory, not even talking about playing with 64 bits integers! > > > > Christophe Indeed. This is why SCP (simple, small, letter-box style move generation) was chosen for the basis of the popular PocketChess line of PDA chess programs. Ian
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