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Subject: Re: Bruce Moreland on rec.games.chess.computer

Author: Bruce Moreland

Date: 10:16:42 06/03/01

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On June 03, 2001 at 08:12:09, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:

>On June 02, 2001 at 17:44:38, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>
>>I do a test to see if there is apparently only one move that doesn't suck.  I
>>do a reduced depth search.  If the first few don't drive the score to something
>>close to alpha, I leave, because I assume this is a fail-low node.  If one of
>>them drives the score pretty close to alpha, I check the rest to see if there
>>are any more that do this.
>
>Ok, I assume you do this before starting the normal search, but
>after nullmove etc?

Without looking at the source, I don't know.  It's fair to try it both ways, if
that makes sense.

>Before starting the normal search, you search every move with R=2/R=3
>or something similar, and check whether there is one single move
>that produces a score close to alpha, whereas the remainder is
>clearly worse. You speed this up by exiting if neither of the first
>few moves gets near alpha. You can probably also speed this up
>(I have no idea whether you do it or not) by, after you have found
>a 'potential singular' move, exiting if neither of the following
>moves gets near alpha too.

I don't remember what R I use, but I picked an R through experimentation which
others can also do.

The philosophy is simply to see if there is only one obvious way to avoid
disaster, and if so, to investigate this further.

>>If there's only one move that looks decent, I call it singular and extend it a
>>ply.
>
>A full ply? No fractional increments?

This should also be the subject of experiments.

>>This doesn't work in the endgame, but in the middlegame I found it
>>improved solution times in the ECM suite dramatically, while costing a ply in
>>the general case.
>
>Intresting. So you found a definite tactical strength increase?
>Any numbers on WAC?

WAC isn't a good suite once you've made your engine capable.  If you run it at a
minute per test, on decent hardware, you'll get at least 296 of them right.
Reducing time doesn't change this much.  I use the ECM suite because it is
harder, so making the program faster or better results in more solutions.  ECM
has bugs, which I ignore, since even with them it's still the best tactical
suite.

>>This extension made my search pretty unstable so I had to do some of the hash
>>table stuff mentioned in the DT article on singular extension published in the
>>ICCAJ some years ago.
>
>Ok. Do you also hash nodes where you did not find a singular move,
>i.e. the ICCAJ paper only mentions hashing positive results with
>stickyness, so even if the move is no longer singular we still
>pretent it is after a while. You could do the same for non-singular
>nodes. Do you?

I do something approximating what is mentioned in that paper.  I don't mean to
be a butthead, but I'm not going to go look at my stuff and lay it out here in
pseudo-code.  If I'm going to do that, I'd at least do it for a paper or
something.

I don't mind helping amateurs with stuff, since they will credit what they get
from me.  There are others who will take without crediting, and I don't want to
be responsible for inflating their myth.

>>The version that played in the WCCC 1999 used this.  Don Beal came around
>>collecting program information and I told him then, so it may have already been
>>published in an ICCAJ.
>
>I don't have access to those, unfortunately :(
>
>Sorry for all the questions, but you're the only person I know
>of that is currently using singular extensions without seeing
>a noticable strength decrease. Since I've been trying to get
>them to work in Crafty for a while, this is very interesting.
>
>Mike Byrne sent me some code from Robert from 2 years ago that,
>as far as I can tell, pretty much seems to do what you describe,
>but it's got some weird things in there too, and I don't fully
>understand them.

I think that Bob started messing with it because I told him that I was messing
with it and liked it.  I am not sure if he had success with it or not.

It's hard to get it to do anything other than suck plies.  I wrote a fairly
direct implementation and it worked alright after some fiddling.  I didn't do
everything the DT guys did.  I did it as cheaply as I could.

bruce

>
>--
>GCP



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