Author: Mark Young
Date: 08:06:00 06/04/01
Go up one level in this thread
On June 04, 2001 at 10:11:45, Uri Blass wrote: >On June 04, 2001 at 09:35:41, Rajen Gupta wrote: > >>On June 04, 2001 at 08:57:09, José Carlos wrote: >> >>>On June 04, 2001 at 08:28:43, Jouni Uski wrote: >>> >>>>1/2/(5) years? Yes, if we remove benefit from better hardware, what is left?? >>>>Any real improvement is playing level of top engines. 5 points from Nalimov >>>>may be?! >>>> >>>>Jouni >>> >>> I think you cannot remove benefit from better hardware, because most >>>programmer adapt to new hardware to get better programs. For example, a lot of >>>programs have become SMP. This has happend because multiprocessor machines have >>>become cheaper, so it is a hardware improvement that leads to software >>>improvement. >>> Besides that, you can chose your favourite program and compare versions. Let's >>>say Fritz. Compare strength of versions 4.01, 5.32, 6, Deep Fritz. I think you >>>can answer your own question, can't you? >>> >>> José C. >> >>i'm not sure: see my previous post. get the chessbase engines to play each other >>from an individual copy of the same opening book-you'll be surprised at the lack >>of any difference in engine strength.i'm planning to play the 2 tigers vs j5, >>f5.32 and f6 light, all from individual copies of the same opening book(tiger >>book).also going to play f5.16 vs f4 vs h6)if there is no significant difference >>in playing strength between them (i have a suspicion that it might be the case) >>then i'll probably stop buying newer programmes. > >I am almost sure that you will find significant difference >if you play enough games. > >I will be surprised if you do not find at least 50 elo difference. >> >>inmo 95% of the so-called increse in strength is purely the result of better >>opening books, book learning functions, access to endgametables and tuning >>against the immediate predecessor programmes. > >I do not believe in it. > >I believe that at least 50% of the improvement is a result of better >engines. You are correct. Anyone how has run the new and old programs together in tournaments knows that the newer engines have made great leaps in strength over the years. To me it is clear the new program play better chess. I have setup many double robin round tournament were every programs uses the same opening book, hash size, tablebases ect.. I can not think of one tournament that the newer engines did not beat out the old. Junior 4.6 (Computer world champion program), Fritz 5 (former #1 SSDF), Hiarcs 6 (former #1 SSDF) , Junior 5 ect. All very strong programs even by todays standards, but they are all outclassed by a good margin by the newest programs in the tournament I have run. Even the Freebee programs show better results with the newer versions. Such as Comet, Exchess, ect. Crafty is the only wild card when it comes to improvments from version to version, as Bob updates his program all the time and some are just broken in some way or the other from time to time. > >Uri
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