Author: Uri Blass
Date: 10:28:28 06/04/01
Go up one level in this thread
On June 04, 2001 at 12:06:42, Uri Blass wrote:
>On June 04, 2001 at 10:56:47, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On June 04, 2001 at 10:42:17, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On June 04, 2001 at 10:17:35, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 04, 2001 at 09:33:39, Sune Larsson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [D]2br3r/1pN1pk2/p1np1pq1/6p1/2P1P1p1/1P2Q1B1/P4PPP/3RR1K1 b - - 0 22
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the position from the CCT3 tournament game Insomniac-Shredder.
>>>>> After recieving some mails requesting for comments to my game vs Deep Fritz,
>>>>> I post this follow up. It focuses on the subjects "doing nothing" vs
>>>>> "doing something", how good are top programs in detecting attacks?,
>>>>> how intense and strong is their play when examined under a microscope?
>>>>> Kramnik is just around the corner...and what could we really expect from
>>>>> those coming games?
>>>>>
>>>>> In this special game, white has just played 22.Rfe1. Shredder didn't like
>>>>> the position (some people claimed it was almost lost), and chose "doing
>>>>> nothing" with 22.-Rhf8. White then won. But what would happen if we tried
>>>>> a more aggressive attacking plan for black? I wanted to know and that's the
>>>>> reason for the following game vs Deep Fritz.
>>>>>
>>>>> I refrain from more conclusions than those embedded in the pgn.game comments.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>[Event "Nivå=120'/40+60'/20+30'. "]
>>>>>[Site "KIL"]
>>>>>[Date "2001.06.01"]
>>>>>[Round "?"]
>>>>>[White "Deep Fritz"]
>>>>>[Black "Larsson"]
>>>>>[Result "0-1"]
>>>>>[SetUp "1"]
>>>>>[FEN "2br3r/1pN1pk2/p1np1pq1/6p1/2P1P1p1/1P2Q1B1/P4PPP/3RR1K1 b - - 0 22"]
>>>>>[PlyCount "61"]
>>>>>[EventDate "2001.06.01"]
>>>>>
>>>>>{128MB, PowerBig.ctg. PIII 800 In this position Shredder chose a standstill
>>>>>and with 22.-Rhf8 intended to do nothing. White eventually broke through with
>>>>>c5 and won the game. Black's major problem is his king, but if white is not
>>>>>active enough, black can create dangerous counterplay on the kingside. The
>>>>>vulnarable squares around white's king are h2 and f3, so a setup with Ne5, Qh5
>>>>>(to support a possible Nf3+) and doubling the rooks on the h-file, looks
>>>>>promising.} 22... Qh5 {0 Gambit Tiger chooses 22.-e5 with the plan of planting
>>>>>the knight on d4. But white gets a dangerous attack after 23.Qb6 Nd4 24.Rxd4
>>>>>and later breaking in the center. After some moves GT showed an eval of more
>>>>>than -2.00. In this variation black's king is too naked. Instead 22.-Qh5 focus
>>>>>on both h2 and f3, and if white is passive, he can easily get in danger.} 23.
>>>>>a3 {1.44/14 196 White is doing nothing. This move simply wastes a tempo and
>>>>>has no purpose at all. Much better was f.e.23.c5} 23... Rh6 {54 Preparing to
>>>>>double the rooks on the h-file, and at the same time setting a little trap for
>>>>>white, who now can go pawnhunting.} 24. Qb6 {1.97/14 93 Yes, white sees the
>>>>>option of getting some on the Q-side. Much more direct was again 24.c5} 24...
>>>>>Ne5 {56 And now black has reached his ideal attacking setup. White has to be
>>>>>very careful about the option Nf3+, since there are loads of mate patterns
>>>>>with a black pawn on f3.} 25. Nxa6 {2.09/13 75 White takes the pawn and feels
>>>>>happy with +2.09. Again white could play 25.c5
>>>>
>>>>I believe that the time management of Deep Fritz is the main mistake
>>>>here.
>>>>
>>>>Deep Fritz has a tendency to use less time when the score goes up and
>>>>it is a clear mistake in the time management.
>>>>
>>>>This mistake in time management is typical to Fritz's versions.
>>>>
>>>>If you give Deep Fritz more time to get into depth 14
>>>>it can find 25.Ne6 with no problem and I believe that white
>>>>has no problem after 25.Ne6.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>I can add that the main problem is
>>>not failing high but the fact that Fritz does not like to calculate
>>>when it see a big advantage for itself.
>>>
>>>At depth 14 Deep Fritz fails low but Fritz cannot get into depth 14
>>>at tournament time control because it does not like to calculate
>>>when the evaluation is more than +2.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>
>>If that is true, it is a stupid design decision. It is too late to wait
>>until the score gets to -2 before you start using a normal amount of time.
>>
>>I don't use the score to set my target search time. I think it is asking for
>>trouble.
>
>The problem is not a big problem because usually when Deep Fritz shows
>more than +2 it wins the game but there are cases when it is a problem.
>
>I am not sure about the decision to play faster when the score is more
>than +2 but I am sure that I watched Fritz playing faster when
>it had clearly a winning position inspite of the fact that
>it did not see a forced mate.
>
>In this case Fritz did not guess correctly the right move
>so I do not see a logical reason to stop searching after only 75
>seconds when you remember that it is 2 hours/40 moves and fritz had
>more than average of 3 minutes per move.
>
>Uri
I checked it again and it seems that the score is not the only reason
of fritz.
If I give it the initial position when black has no queen it is using
more than 90 seconds for the first move of white in
60 minutes/40 moves but
if I give it the position when it played Nxa6 it may use only 50 seconds on
my PIII850 even in cases that it has 95 minutes/40 moves.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Fritz did not change
it's mind and Fritz is using less time in cases
when it does not change it's mind but in any case
it seems to be a stupid design decision.
Uri
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