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Subject: Re: Tiger or pussycat: Tiger 14 - MChessPro 8

Author: Rajen Gupta

Date: 02:38:51 06/09/01

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On June 09, 2001 at 02:27:27, Uri Blass wrote:

>On June 08, 2001 at 18:04:52, Rajen Gupta wrote:
>
>>On June 08, 2001 at 10:44:29, Harald Faber wrote:
>>
>>>On June 07, 2001 at 11:35:16, Rajen Gupta wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 07, 2001 at 09:53:24, Harald Faber wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Clear win for Tiger, no chance for the oldie. 7.5-2.5 in favour of Tiger. Even
>>>>>booklines up to 30 moves (10th game) didn't help...games, as always, at
>>>>>www.geocities.comHarald1312/HaraldFaberE.html.
>>>>
>>>>hi hrald: how are you coducting this match-on 2 computers/ and what opening
>>>>books are you usinig?
>>>
>>>I am using the according opening books, that means the normal ct.tbk for Tiger
>>>14 and the tournament book is activated in MChessPro 8.
>>>
>>>>i am running a match on a single celeron 900, eng vs eng, 64 mb hash tables
>>>>each; 90min/60 moves; both programmes using an individual copy of the chessbase
>>>>tiger book. currently chessbasetiger14 vs junior5 w=10; l=7 d=10. at 20 games
>>>>both were running equal with w=6, l=6 d=8. i'm not sure if the latest progs are
>>>>that much stronger if the oldies can play of the same opening books.
>>>>
>>>>rajen
>>>
>>>Don't forget that many opening books are adjusted to the engine, so testing with
>>>only one book to which all programs have access just lets you test this book. If
>>>you want to check a program, you have to use the given opening book. That is why
>>>I am not very lucky about the fact that the Chessbase Tiger does not have the
>>>Noomen-opening book. I am sure that Tiger is strong enough to play well with
>>>this opening book too, but I am not sure if the results would be better with the
>>>Noomen-book.
>>
>>i'm using the tiger book for both programmes and the engines are running in the
>>tiger interface. (so no excuses for the tiger)assuming that the chessbase tiger
>>book is not optimised for tiger(which i doubt very much-in my opinion the
>>chessbase book is at least as good as the noomen book,if not better)it certainly
>>is not optimised for junior 5. i initially thought of using the junior5 book for
>>both programmes but then there would be the excuse that tiger is using an
>>un-optimised book. the fact that as of today the score is tiger w=14;l=11; d=15
>>shows that there is very little to separate tired old junior5 from the so called
>>'monster" chesstiger.
>> i am a firm believer in the theory that 99% of the so-called improvement in
>>newer programmes comes from the opening book and that basically any good opening
>>book consisting of high level gm games will equally suit all programmes
>>
>>rajen
>
>99% of the difference?
>
>The result suggest 30 elo difference between Junior5 and tiger14.
>if 99% of the difference between Junior5 and tiger14 is because of better
>opening books then it suggest that the difference between tiger14 and Junior5 is
>3000 elo.
>
>Another points to consider:
>1)30 elo can be wrong and the statistical error is still more than 20 elo(you
>need hundreds of game in order to have statistical difference of 20 elo)
>
>2)The match is done on one computer and it is possible that tiger14 is better on
>2 computers(I do not think that it create big differences but the difference can
>be something like 20 elo)
>
>3)You cannot decide which program is better by match that is only between 2
>programs because it is possible that A beats B, B beats C and C beats A.
>
>Even if tiger14 cannot get significant result against Junior5 you need to
>compare also the result of Junior5 and tiger14 against other programs.
>
>4)It is possible that Junior5 likes your hardware more than tiger14(if Junior5
>is 2 times faster relative to the ssdf hardware when tiger14 is only 1.7 times
>faster relative to the ssdf hardware it can explain part of the difference)
>
>Uri

hi uri:the match is done on 1 computer but neither of the 2 engines are losing
any cpu time when they are calculating.i have compared this with the figures on
the "tigermark" and "juniormark". if tiger likes 2 computers better, so would
junior, and i think equally. i am conducting a long series of matches-probably
100 games, so i would get a better significance. but i dont see much
difference-whenever tiger wins a game, juniuor wins the next one and the scores
have remained consistent.i dont expect more than a 6 game difference at 100
games.

i will compare the relative performance against other programmes as well;but
again i think the score ould be extremely close esp when the opening books are
standard.

rajen



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