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Subject: Re: Why is this type of endgame position still so difficult??

Author: José Carlos

Date: 01:30:48 06/12/01

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On June 11, 2001 at 11:19:55, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On June 11, 2001 at 03:05:27, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On June 11, 2001 at 01:31:14, Jouni Uski wrote:
>>
>>>[D]8/4k3/2K5/6p1/6B1/7P/8/8 w - -
>>>
>>>I tested this simple draw position with 3 engines:
>>>Fritz5      +4,53 no TBs
>>>Goliath     +3,39 no TBs
>>>Crafty18.7  +5,01 with 4 piece TBs
>>>
>>>Hmm. Should this already be solved poblem?
>>>
>>>Jouni
>>
>>The position is not simple draw.
>>I have not the tablebases to find out if it is a draw or not a draw but white
>>may try to force black to play g4 by zunzwang and to win after hxg4.
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>I have looked at this position a bit closer.  It is not so easy to statically
>evaluate this one as a draw.  Crafty does this early on, but it is possible for
>white to eventually zug black into moving.  The problem is that if black really
>gets zugged, the pawn move will lose.  Without the black pawn, this is trivially
>drawn, but with it, black has problems staying in front of the pawn.  I think
>it is likely that many programs could actually lose this without tablebases.
>But in any case, Crafty discovers that there are problems here that make it
>non-trivial to claim it is drawn:  the black king can't get into the corner
>and stick because white will him in and zug him to push the pawn and lose.

  I don't see why the black king can't get to the corner. The only way I see
white can force black to move the pawn is something like this:

[D]7k/8/4B1K1/6p1/8/7P/8/8 b - - 0 6

  Here, after ...g4:

  hg4 is stalemate
  Bg4 is a draw due to the h pawn and white bishop.

  Of course, this is difficult to statically evaluate.

  José C.



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