Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 06:00:11 06/12/01
Go up one level in this thread
On June 12, 2001 at 06:47:59, odell hall wrote: >On June 11, 2001 at 09:05:21, Chessfun wrote: > >>On June 10, 2001 at 02:55:54, odell hall wrote: >> >>>On June 10, 2001 at 02:52:50, Slater Wold wrote: >>> >>>>On June 10, 2001 at 02:14:50, odell hall wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 09, 2001 at 23:56:07, Slater Wold wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>No. I don't think so. It was only 2 games, and not even tournament length >>>>>>games at that. >>>>>> >>>>>>When I saw how easily Petr defeated Deep Shredder, I was amazed. He was >>>>>>kibitz'ing most of the game. Like he didn't even have to concentrate. >>>>>> >>>>>>Remember, he said that Deep Shredder performance was approx. 2100-2200 FIDE in >>>>>>the game against him? (Which it played 100x worse against him, I agree.) Guess >>>>>>what Petr said about these games? >>>>>> >>>>>>Thoughts on ending of game 1: >>>>>> >>>>>>Petrovich(GM) kibitzes: it's very difficult for human to play positions with >>>>>>compensations for a pawn >>>>>> >>>>>>Petrovich(GM) kibitzes: may be just white has no sufficient compensation :) >>>>>>Project played like Machine :)) >>>>>> >>>>>>Game 2: >>>>>> >>>>>>Petrovich(GM) kibitzes: 4...Bxc3? >>>>>> >>>>>>Petrovich(GM) kibitzes: I beat Jrlok never play Bxc3 vs human GM :) >>>>>> >>>>>>Petrovich(GM) kibitzes: please think about it :) >>>>>> >>>>>>Petrovich(GM) kibitzes: comp played opening like patzer again >>>>>> >>>>>>And about the series: >>>>>> >>>>>>Petrovich(GM) tells you: hmm, comp played like 2200 in the closed position and >>>>>>like 2600 in open :) It's hard to evaluate his strength >>>>>> >>>>>>Petrovich(GM) tells you: so, 2200+2600 / 2 = 2400 :) lol >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Petr and I just went over quickly the games. These are not annotated or >>>>>>anything, just general conversation on the games. >>>>>> >>>>>>Also, please be aware that when I played Petr, I did _NOT_ prepare at all. I >>>>>>asked him for a game, and we played. Having been singled out by JRLOK, I >>>>>>prepared an better book. This time when I played JRLOK, there was no in & out >>>>>>of book problems. >>>>>> >>>>>>Shredder played a much better game this time around, than last. However, I am >>>>>>not ready to say that Shredder is GM strength. Like Robert said, to be 2600 you >>>>>>have to play like a 2600 every game. Not 2100 here and 2700 here. 2600 ALL THE >>>>>>TIME. >>>>>> >>>>>>I am planning more and more GM vs Shredder games. Perhaps at the end of this >>>>>>year, we can make a FAIR guess at Deep Shredder's ELO. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Slate >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Well if what he said is true, a 2100-22000 just beat roman , one of the >>>>>strongest grandmasters in computer chess around, and that is impressive. >>>> >>>>NO NO NO! He rated my performance against HIM as being about 2100-2200! Just >>>>_ONE_ game! >>>> >>>>There's NO doubt Deep Shredder is stronger, it just had a "bad game." >>>> >>>> >>>>Slate >>> >>> >>>Yep just like many humans, i was surprised though that jrlok lost, since he >>>knows computer chess so well, i expected a win. >> >> >>Just my 2 cents for what it's worth. >>Roman may lose to your program first few times, even first ten times. >>But once he sees what book lines you have, what positions you play moves like a3 >>or h3 in. Then he will play some more and win some. Make no changes and he will >>pound you to pieces. This is one of the reasons I think Bob believes computers >>are NOT GM strength. >> >>Sarah. > > > Hi Sarah > > > I am curios what do you believe? Since you have done alot of testing of >programs, (and i have been to your site, very nice). Do you think they are Gm >Strength? I realize that technically they can never be Grandmasters , since Fide >will not give the title to a computer. Shouldn't you be asking a human GM? Would you ask a policeman if "XXX" is a great brain-surgeon??? Would you ask a brain-surgeon if "YYY" is a great programmer? Etc... I don't think that someone that is _not_ a GM is really qualified to answer this question, particularly if they don't know a _great_ deal about what goes on inside a chess program... and even then, they will need GM input...
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