Author: Terry McCracken
Date: 06:41:03 06/14/01
Go up one level in this thread
On June 14, 2001 at 05:07:17, Eelco de Groot wrote: >On June 13, 2001 at 10:16:42, Terry McCracken wrote: > >>On June 13, 2001 at 04:17:17, Eelco de Groot wrote: >> >>>Terry, >>> >>>In case you or or other competitors missed it I posted a snippet of computer >>>analysis on 36. ...Bc6 here: >>>http://www.icdchess.com/forums/1/message.shtml?174727 >>> >>>Last lines after 30 hours it is still 36. ..Bc6: >>> >>>[D]6k1/5p1p/6p1/3p2Pn/b2P1P2/pnN1BB2/7P/6K1 b - - 0 1 >>> >>> >>>Rebel Engine for ECTool. (c) Ed Schröder >>> >>>Engine version : REBEL CENTURY 2 >>>Rebel personality : "Q5T" >>>Opening book file : RebelC.mvs >>>Hash table size : 12 MB >>>Analysis mode : Analyzing next move >>>Refresh interval : 500 ms >>> >>> >>> >>>00:00 06.00 0.09 1..Bb5 2.Bxd5 Ba4 3.Bc4 Na5 4.Bd3 >>>00:01 06.02 1.38 1..Nxd4 2.Bxd4 Nxf4 3.Bxd5 Nxd5 4.Nxd5 h5 5.gxh6 f5 6.Nf6+ >>>Kh8 7.Nd5+ >>>00:01 07.00 0.80 1..Nxd4 2.Bxd4 Nxf4 3.Bxd5 Nxd5 4.Nxd5 a2 5.Nf6+ Kf8 6.Nxh7+ >>>Ke7 7.Nf6 Bc6 8.Kf1 >>>00:02 07.11 1.45 1..Ng7 2.Bxd5 Nf5 3.Kf2 Nxe3 4.Kxe3 Nc1 5.Nxa4 >>>00:02 08.00 0.93 1..Ng7 2.Bxd5 Nf5 3.Kf2 Kg7 4.Bc4 Nxe3 5.Kxe3 Nc1 6.Nxa4 >>>00:03 08.08 1.22 1..Bc6 2.Bd1 Nxd4 3.Bxd4 Nxf4 4.Kf2 Ne6 5.Ke3 Nxg5 >>>00:04 09.01 1.20 1..Ng7 >>>00:09 10.00 1.70 1..Bc6 2.Bxh5 gxh5 3.Na2 Bd7 4.Nc1+ Na5 5.Bd2 Nc6 6.Bc3 Kg7 >>>00:16 11.00 1.25 1..Bc6 2.Bd1 Nxd4 3.Bxd4 Nxf4 4.Kf2 Nd3+ 5.Ke3 >>>00:18 11.01 1.36 1..Ng7 2.Bxd5 Nf5 3.Bxb3 Bxb3 4.Bc1 a2 5.Bb2 Kf8 6.d5 Ke7 >>>7.h3 >>>00:33 12.00 1.34 1..Ng7 2.Bxd5 Nf5 3.Bxb3 Bxb3 4.Bc1 a2 5.Bb2 Kf8 6.d5 >>>01:08 13.00 1.24 1..Ng7 2.Bxd5 Nf5 3.Bxb3 Bxb3 4.Bc1 a2 5.Bb2 Nxd4 6.Nxa2 >>>01:49 13.01 1.24 1..Bc6 >>>02:07 13.01 1.46 1..Bc6 2.Kf2 Nxf4 3.Bxf4 Nxd4 4.Bg2 Ne6 5.Be5 d4 >>>05:34 14.00 1.19 1..Bc6 2.Kf2 Ng7 3.Bd1 Na5 4.Bc1 Nc4 5.Bb3 Nf5 6.Ne2 >>>27:51 15.00 1.75 1..Bc6 2.Kf2 f5 3.Bxh5 gxh5 4.Na2 Bb5 5.Nc1 Na1 >>>55:23 16.00 1.74 1..Bc6 2.Kf2 f5 3.Bd1 Nxd4 4.Bxd4 Nxf4 5.Be3 Nd3+ 6.Ke2 Nb4 >>>52:53 17.00 1.44 1..Bc6 2.Kf2 Ng7 3.Bd1 Na5 4.Bc1 Nc4 5.Bb3 >>>27:26 18.00 1.60 1..Bc6 2.Kf2 h6 3.h4 Nxf4 4.Bxf4 Nxd4 5.Bg2 >>>39:10 19.00 1.34 1..Bc6 2.Kf2 h6 3.f5 hxg5 4.Bd1 (20:39:10) >>> >>>Not that I quickly see why the comp thinks this is any better than Ng7 but just >>>for comparison. But I think it is too soon to declare it a draw unless not >>>enough persons want to play on. >>> >>> Eelco >> >>Eelco I agree that it's up to the voters as a whole, whether to play on or not >>regardless if it's a draw. >> >>However, "Q5T" doesn't know what GT 2.0 will do with 36..Bc6 and I do. >>Unless it changes it's moves at a very high depth, if 36..Bc6 37.Bd1 if 37..Ba4 >>38.Bf3..Ba4 39.Bf3..Ba4 and draw by 3 Fold Repeat. (Unless the voters want to >>revert to the rejected Na5?! line which _does_ draw without hope for more.) >>GT 2.0 doesn't consider Kf2! It goes for the draw! >> >>If people want to try for a win then I would highly recommend 36..Ng7 with an >>edge for Black. >>The only 2 programms to my knowledge that at high plys go for 36..Ng7 are GT 2.0 >>and Junior 6. There must be others? >>Fritz 6 only likes 36..Ng7 when you substitute the move in place of 36..Bc6 >>otherwise it just appears to keep working on 36..Bc6 till "The Cows Come >>Home"!;) Maybe at ply 30 it would change it's "mind"? Who knows. But even at ply >>23 to 24 it's still on 36..Bc6. >>Gambit Tiger II changes by ply 21 or 22 to 36..Ng7 giving an evaluation of -/+ >>38. So it likes 36..Ng7 as it puts more wait on the play and appears to avoid >>draws with the exception of repeating moves. >>Junior 6 gives an evaluation of -/+ 30 for Black with 36..Ng7 at depth 23. >>Very close to Gambit Tiger II. >>My recommendation then to attempt to play for a win would be 36..Ng7 since I >>know how GT 2.0 evaluates this position. >>Or play 36..Bc6 37.Bd1..Ba4 38.Bf3..Ng7, just to stall but nothing more. >>However, that would buy some analizing time!:-) >>The game is most complex after Black plays Ng7. Will it win, not likely, but >>programms are fallible and it might take a wrong turn in the endgame. >>It will prolong the game at least 20 more moves before people gave up at the >>very least. Depends on the people playing of course;) >> >>Regards, >> Terry > >I see Terry thanks for explaining and the lines. I let Q5T analyze without the >game history and that may change things. If I enter the same position again and >then one repetition Q5T now goes for Ng7 (36. ..Bc6 37.Bd1 Ba4 38.Bf3 Ng7) So I >think there is a chance that humans, or computers, might want to do the same. >Difficult to predict what is the best move to vote for to comply with the >majority in this case I'm afraid.. > > Eelco Yes it is! I may win my vote or lose it this time. I really don't know? Terry
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