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Subject: Re: Pouring oil on the fire

Author: Ricardo Gibert

Date: 23:34:05 06/15/01

Go up one level in this thread


On June 15, 2001 at 19:10:07, Dann Corbit wrote:

>On June 15, 2001 at 18:41:00, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>
>>On June 15, 2001 at 18:32:18, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>
>>>Why ressurrect this thread? Are you trolling?
>>
>>Because the issue at hand was never resolved.
>>
>>They said sorry-sorry, but the thread itself died
>>out because of the name-calling.
>>
>>>Hopefully, your post will be ignored by the parties involved.
>>
>>If they are unable to talk about this in a mature manner,
>>that's whay they should do.
>>
>>That's why I chose the subject as it is. I'd like to discuss
>>this further, but I realize it may not be possible.
>
>ELO is a very simple system.  It measures exactly this:
>"On a broad average, what is the probability of points scored between two
>opponents in a tested pool of talent?"

This absolutely incorrect! ELO measures the *performance* of a player within a
*pool* of players. It is particularly *not* intended to predict performance
between *individuals*. That is a mistake. It is not even intended to predict the
performance of an individual within a pool of players, though that may be a
plausible application.

>
>If the opponents are from different pools, the results are suspect.
>If the opponents played under different conditions, the results are suspect.
>If the number of trials is small,  the results are suspect.
>
>So exactly what is it useful for?
>
>Imagine a USCF tournament.  Two players have played hundreds of games against
>various opponents.  If they should play against each other, what is the most
>likely outcome? [NOT to be confused with the actual outcome].  What
>classification should a player be in?  Things like that.
>
>Imagine a SSDF test run.  A program is tried against two dozen other programs,
>which have each played hundreds of games against each other.  Many trials are
>run.  We can now predict (with measured certainty) what will happen if we match
>this new program against another program from this pool of known strength, under
>exactly the same conditions of hardware, time control, etc.
>
>It does not answer this question:
>What happens if a USCF player plays a game against an SSDF program?
>
>It does not answer this question:
>What happens if Paul Morphy played against Garry Kasparov?
>
>It does not answer this question:
>Why will people never get the hang of the ELO system?
>;-)
>
>Of course, it was never designed to address any of those.



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