Author: Frank Phillips
Date: 01:45:32 06/17/01
Go up one level in this thread
On June 17, 2001 at 04:11:26, Uri Blass wrote: >Are there top programs that are designed to see always simple tactics after >enough time? > >Is it possible to change them to see always simple tactics after enough time >when the price is only being 0.1% slower by using 2 engines when one engine is >usually used only for only 0.1% of the time or maybe my math is wrong and only >using another engine makes the program already more than 0.1% slower because of >the fact that the program is bigger(even if the other engine is simply the >original engine without null move pruning)? > >The position in the end of my post can happen in a game(it happened in an >engine-engine game when I started from one of the position from my >correspondence games). > >Deep Fritz could not see simple tactics because of null move pruning(with >selectivity=0 Deep fritz has no problem to see more than 10 pawns advantage for >black by Nc6 but with null move pruning Nc6 failed low again and again and fritz >change it's mind to Ke3 when it is not clear if black can win after this move). > >I remember that Amir Ban said about other rare cases when Junior cannot see >simple tactics that it is not a bug and I understand that he is not going to fix >it so I wonder if there is a top program that is designed to see always simple >tactics after enough time. > > >New position >[D]1n6/1P6/8/2P5/p3kp1p/6p1/1P4K1/4N3 b - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Deep Fritz: > >1...a3-- > ³ (-0.31) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >1...a3-- > ³ (-0.31) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >1...f3+! > ³ (-0.38) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >1...h3+! > ³ (-0.50) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >1...h3+! 2.Kxh3 > µ (-0.91) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >1...Nc6! > -+ (-1.69) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >1...Nc6! > -+ (-2.13) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >1...Nc6-- > -+ (-1.81) Depth: 2/4 00:00:00 >1...Nc6-- > -+ (-1.81) Depth: 2/4 00:00:00 >1...Kd4! > -+ (-2.09) Depth: 2/6 00:00:00 >1...Kd4! 2.Nf3+ > -+ (-2.22) Depth: 2/6 00:00:00 >1...Kd4 2.Nf3+ Kxc5 3.Nxh4 > -+ (-2.22) Depth: 3/8 00:00:00 >1...Kd4 2.Nf3+ Kxc5 3.Nxh4 Kd5 > -+ (-2.22) Depth: 4/10 00:00:00 >1...Kd4 2.Nf3+ Kxc5 3.Nxh4 Kc6 4.Ng6 > -+ (-1.97) Depth: 5/11 00:00:00 >1...Kd4-- > -+ (-1.66) Depth: 6/12 00:00:00 2kN >1...Kd4-- 2.Nf3+ Kxc5 3.Nxh4 Kc6 4.Ng6 Kxb7 > -+ (-1.47) Depth: 6/13 00:00:00 2kN >1...Kd5! > -+ (-1.50) Depth: 6/13 00:00:00 2kN >1...Kd5! 2.Nd3 Kd4 3.Nxf4 Kxc5 4.Ne6+ Kd6 > -+ (-1.75) Depth: 6/13 00:00:00 3kN >1...Nc6! > -+ (-1.78) Depth: 6/13 00:00:00 4kN >1...Nc6! 2.Kh3 f3 3.Nxf3 > -+ (-2.13) Depth: 6/13 00:00:00 6kN >1...Nc6 2.Kh3 f3 3.Nxf3 Kxf3 4.Kxh4 g2 > -+ (-2.41) Depth: 7/15 00:00:00 8kN >1...Nc6-- > -+ (-2.09) Depth: 8/10 00:00:00 10kN >1...Nc6-- > -+ (-2.09) Depth: 8/18 00:00:00 12kN >1...Nc6! > -+ (-2.41) Depth: 9/17 00:00:00 28kN >1...Nc6-- > -+ (-2.09) Depth: 10/14 00:00:00 37kN >1...Nc6-- > -+ (-2.09) Depth: 10/19 00:00:00 45kN >1...Nc6! > -+ (-2.41) Depth: 11/20 00:00:00 87kN >1...Nc6-- > -+ (-2.09) Depth: 12/21 00:00:00 128kN >1...Nc6-- > -+ (-2.09) Depth: 12/24 00:00:00 172kN >1...Nc6-- > -+ (-1.78) Depth: 13/21 00:00:00 261kN >1...Nc6-- > -+ (-1.78) Depth: 13/26 00:00:00 377kN >1...Nc6-- > -+ (-1.47) Depth: 14/24 00:00:01 660kN >1...Nc6-- > -+ (-1.47) Depth: 14/28 00:00:01 922kN >1...Nc6-- > µ (-1.16) Depth: 15/27 00:00:02 1600kN >1...Nc6-- > µ (-1.16) Depth: 15/30 00:00:03 2180kN >1...Nc6-- > µ (-0.84) Depth: 16/29 00:00:05 3386kN >1...Nc6-- > µ (-0.84) Depth: 16/30 00:00:06 4622kN >1...Ke3! > µ (-0.88) Depth: 16/35 00:00:11 7839kN >1...Ke3! 2.Nc2+ Kd3 3.c6 Nxc6 4.Nb4+ Ke2 5.Nxc6 f3+ 6.Kh3 f2 7.b8Q > µ (-0.97) Depth: 16/39 00:00:13 9840kN, tb=1 >1...Ke3 2.Nc2+ Kd3 3.c6 Nxc6 4.Nb4+ Ke2 5.Nxc6 f3+ 6.Kh3 f2 7.b8Q > µ (-0.88) Depth: 17/37 00:00:23 17184kN, tb=4 > >(blass, telaviv 16.06.2001) > >Uri Uri I am slightly confused: are you saying that Nc6 is wrong? With null move on, my program thinks it is a big win. Frank 5/10 286 0.1 2466 1. .. Nc6 5/10 256 0.1 3320 1. .. Nc6 5/10 286 0.1 4560 1. .. Nc6 2. Kh3 f3 3. Nxf3 Kxf3 4. Kxh4 6/ 9 286 0.1 5913 1. .. Nc6 6/12 256 0.1 7745 1. .. Nc6 6/12 354 0.1 10868 1. .. Nc6 2. Kh3 f3 3. Nxf3 Kxf3 4. Kxh4 g2 7/10 354 0.1 12255 1. .. Nc6 7/14 324 0.1 16745 1. .. Nc6 7/14 480 0.2 26764 1. .. Nc6 2. Kh3 f3 3. Nc2 f2 4. Kg2 h3+ 5. Kf1 Nb8 8/12 480 0.2 28866 1. .. Nc6 8/16 398 0.2 43684 1. .. Nc6 2. Kh3 f3 3. Nc2 f2 4. Kg2 a3 5. bxa3 h3+ 6. Kf1 9/16 428 0.2 59399 1. .. Nc6 9/17 607 0.4 130457 1. .. Nc6 2. b8=Q Nxb8 3. c6 Nxc6 4. Kh3 f3 5. Kxh4 Kf4 6. Nxf3 Kxf3 10/25 607 0.7 242176 1. .. Nc6 10/25 577 0.7 273891 1. .. Nc6 10/25 790 1.0 398284 1. .. Nc6 2. Kf1 f3 3. Nxf3 Kxf3 4. Kg1 h3 5. Kh1 Kf2 6. b8=Q Nxb8 11/20 820 1.2 519319 1. .. Nc6 11/25 820 2.4 943058 1. .. Nc6 11/25 861 2.5 1000768 1. .. Nc6 2. Kg1 f3 3. Nxf3 Kxf3 4. b8=Q Nxb8 12/22 891 2.9 1168086 1. .. Nc6 12/27 1055 4.6 2003512 1. .. Nc6 2. Kg1 f3 3. Nxf3 Kxf3 4. b8=Q Nxb8 5. c6 Nxc6 6. Kf1 h3 7. Kg1 Nd4 8. Kf1 13/26 1085 5.7 2435863 1. .. Nc6 13/28 1178 10.1 4166248 1. .. Nc6 2. Kh3 f3 3. Ng2 f2 4. Kxh4 Kf3 5. b8=Q Nxb8 6. Ne3 Kxe3 7. Kxg3 f1=Q 8. Kg4 14/27 1208 13.1 5168547 1. .. Nc6 14/31 1226 20.5 8194403 1. .. Nc6 2. Kh3 f3 3. Ng2 f2 4. b8=Q Nxb8 5. Nxh4 f1=Q+ 6. Kxg3 Qf4+ 7. Kh3 Kd4 8. Ng2 Qf3+ 9. Kh2 Kxc5 15/29 1256 26.4 10307851 1. .. Nc6 15/33 1268 49.1 19906744 1. .. Nc6 2. Kh3 f3 3. Ng2 f2 4. Nxh4 f1=Q+ 5. Kxg3 Qb5 6. Nf3 Qxb7 7. Nd2+ Kd4 8. b3 axb3 9. Nxb3+ Qxb3+ 10. Kg4 Qd5 11. Kf4 16/30 1298 56.3 22269830 1. .. Nc6 16/34 1363 110.6 44903729 1. .. Nc6 2. Kh3 f3 3. Ng2 f2 4. Nxh4 f1=Q+ 5. Kxg3 Qb5 6. Ng6 Qxc5 7. Nh4 Qe5+ 8. Kg4 Qxb2 9. Nf5 Ne5+ 10. Kg5 Nf3+ 11. Kg6 Qxb7
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