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Subject: Re: Look at these finnish GMs (specially Bob) :-)

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 12:29:26 06/18/01

Go up one level in this thread


On June 18, 2001 at 15:13:57, Chris Carson wrote:

>On June 18, 2001 at 14:34:45, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>Mark, everything falls apart in the presence of your ignorance.
>>
>>to wit:
>>
>>For a GM to earn the title "International Grandmaster" he _must_ (and there are
>>no exceptions) produce a 2600+ rating over 24 games.
>>
>
>Bob, no need to call anyone ignorant.
>

If someone _refuses_ to stick with the thread topic, then that definitely
is a form of ignorance.  If someone is trying to look for a small thing
that can be zoomed in on to be viewed as a "mistake" then that is another
form.

The discussion was "what is needed to become a grandmaster".  Not what was
needed 25 years ago, nor what was needed 100 years ago.  But what is needed
_now_.  And for a long time now, the requirements have been very specific.
The only thing I wasn't aware of was the 24 game requirement.  I had always
seen it refered to as "I need 3 norms to get the title..." and I assumed that
3 norms were needed.  It seems that a "norm" is really an 8-game norm, which
is fine by me.

But clearly, under present-day rules, _nobody_ can earn the title of GM with
a peak rating < 2500.  And _clearly_ nobody can earn the title of GM without
playing at a 2600 level for 24 games.

Both of which I said clearly and concisely previously..




>One 2600+ can be over 9 games, the 24 games is for the 2500.  Also, there are
>exceptions where a single performance can get you the GM title without the 2500
>and two 2600 norms (9 game minimum for a norm):


That isn't the way I read it.  The "norms" are defined as 2600+ performance
ratings in single events.  IE it is more common to see a "category X" event
where you have to get a score of Y to earn a norm.  Y always turns into a
performance rating of 2600 for that event.  The stronger the players, the
lower Y is, of course...

The way I read the rule is (a) a 2500+ official FIDE rating within 7 years of
earning the norms, and (b) a 2600+ TPR over 24 games to meet the "norm"
requirement.  But I read it as _both_ must be done...




>
>1.1  Grandmaster: Obtained by achieving any of the following:
>
>1.11  Two or more GM results in events covering at least 24 games (30 games
>without a round robin or Olympiad) and a rating of at least 2500 in the FIDE
>Rating List current at the time the FIDE Congress considers the application, or
>within seven years of the first title result being achieved. (See 1.7, 10.10)
>(GA '93)
>
>1.12  Qualification for the Candidates Competition for the World Championship.
>
>1.13  One GM result in a FIDE Interzonal tournament.
>
>1.14  Winning the Women's World Championship match. (GA '93)
>
>1.15  Winner on tiebreak in the World Junior Championship. (GA '93 and EB '99)
>
>1.16  A tie for first place in the World Junior Championship is equivalent to
>one 9-game GM result. (GA '93)
>
>1.17  Winner on tiebreak in the Continental Individual or Continental Junior
>Championship is equivalent to one 9-game GM result. (GA '95 and EB '99) Arab and
>Centro American - Caribbean Youth events will be treated as Continental
>Championships. (GA '93)
>
>1.18  Clear first place in the Women's Candidates Tournament is equivalent to
>one 9-game GM result. (GA '93)
>
>1.19  One 13-game GM result in the Olympiad will lead to the award of the full
>title. (GA '93).
>
>1.20  Winner of the World Senior Championship (GA 97)
>
>So the 2500 rating and the two 2600 performances is only one way to get the
>title.
>
>Best Regards,
>Chris Carson


I don't think most of those are easier than the normal requirement.  IE to win
an interzonal, you must _also_ win your local zonal tournament (I don't think
these even exist anymore but they did for years.)  So you had to produce a
truly remarkable performance to win your zonal and then the inter-zonal
events.  None of which will have any 2300-level players...

And there are some others that many don't like.  IE Tal Shaked is one recent
case that got chewed up badly the first time he entered a GM-only event after
he received the title for winning something like the world junior title or
something similar...

But for this discussion, _none_ of those matter.  The zonal/interzonals don't
exist any more that I know of.  They were an artifact of the 3-year championship
cycle of the 70's and so forth.  The rest can _not_ be done by a computer, so
they really don't fit this thread either...



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