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Subject: Re: Look at these finnish GMs (specially Bob) :-)

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 12:30:20 06/18/01

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On June 18, 2001 at 15:19:45, Albert Silver wrote:

>On June 18, 2001 at 15:04:21, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On June 18, 2001 at 14:37:04, Mark Young wrote:
>>
>>>On June 18, 2001 at 14:23:25, Peter Fendrich wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 18, 2001 at 13:41:25, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On June 18, 2001 at 12:42:01, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On June 18, 2001 at 08:21:54, Jouni Uski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Here in Finland we have 3 GMs. Here's from their ratings from fide:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>500011  Yrjola, Jouni                   g 2419 2 24.10.1959
>>>>>>>500020  Westerinen, Heikki M.J.         g 2412 10 27.4.1944
>>>>>>>500038  Rantanen, Yrjo A.               g 2327 0  23.4.1950
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You can give computer a knight handicap to get interesting match...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Jouni
>>>>>
>>>>>Quoted from Bob's post:
>>>>>
>>>>>"So picking a bunch of GMs with ratings of 2400 and then saying "hey, computers
>>>>>are this good, so..." doesn't make much sense.  Because at _some_ point in time,
>>>>>those 2400 GM players were 2600+ GM players, otherwise they would not have
>>>>>gotten the title..."
>>>>>
>>>>>You are Dead Wrong again Bob, we will take the 3 Grandmasters from the previous
>>>>>post for example. Not one of these Grandmasters was ever close to 2600 elo and
>>>>>in fact only one of these grandmasters was able to best 2500+ elo. As usual in
>>>>>this argument your theory falls apart in the light of FACTS.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Yrjola, Jouni GM
>>>>>best elo 2515, 1984
>>>>>
>>>>>Westerinen, Heikki M.J. GM
>>>>>best elo 2485, 1976
>>>>>
>>>>>Rantanen, Yrjo A. GM
>>>>>best elo 2460, 1979
>>>>
>>>>FIDE had a "Central Committee Meeting" at Oosterbeek in Sept 1975.
>>>>At that meeting they changed the regulations for awarding IM and GM titles.
>>>>They approved a proposition to add rating requirement to title norms (2400 and
>>>>2500 respectively for IM and GM titles).
>>>
>>>Correct, and this was good move by FIDE. As it is much harder to achieve a 2500+
>>>elo rating the make TPR's for Grandmaster status.
>>
>>Do you have a statistics that proves it.
>>
>>Here is a way to check if you are right that the 2500+ is much harder
>>
>>take all the humans that achieved one of the following:
>>1)GM norms in 2 or 3 tournaments with at least 24 games
>>2)Rating of at least 2500
>>
>>I am interested to know how many of them achieved 1 first or only 1 and how many
>>of them achieved 2 first or only 2.
>>
>>For this discussion humans who achieved their first rating of more than 2500
>>based on their tournament when they got the last GM norm are considered as
>>humans who achieved both targets at the same time
>>
>>Uri
>
>Let's also not forget that at that time, having a 2600+ rating put you as a
>super GM (similar to the ~2700 GMs of today), and that at that time, the
>international rating system was still in its infancy, so it worked with a MUCH
>smaller pool of players. There was a time when getting a 2700 rating was
>something akin to being a god (in chess), and until 1989 more or less, the only
>players to have reached it were all world champions. Now it is considered a
>select 'club' of players.
>
>                                       Albert

It is possible to use only the last 10 years for this statistics and to avoid
these problems.

Uri



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