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Subject: Re: Look at these finnish GMs (specially Bob) :-)

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 12:33:32 06/18/01

Go up one level in this thread


On June 18, 2001 at 15:30:20, Uri Blass wrote:

>On June 18, 2001 at 15:19:45, Albert Silver wrote:
>
>>On June 18, 2001 at 15:04:21, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On June 18, 2001 at 14:37:04, Mark Young wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 18, 2001 at 14:23:25, Peter Fendrich wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On June 18, 2001 at 13:41:25, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On June 18, 2001 at 12:42:01, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On June 18, 2001 at 08:21:54, Jouni Uski wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Here in Finland we have 3 GMs. Here's from their ratings from fide:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>500011  Yrjola, Jouni                   g 2419 2 24.10.1959
>>>>>>>>500020  Westerinen, Heikki M.J.         g 2412 10 27.4.1944
>>>>>>>>500038  Rantanen, Yrjo A.               g 2327 0  23.4.1950
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You can give computer a knight handicap to get interesting match...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Jouni
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Quoted from Bob's post:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"So picking a bunch of GMs with ratings of 2400 and then saying "hey, computers
>>>>>>are this good, so..." doesn't make much sense.  Because at _some_ point in time,
>>>>>>those 2400 GM players were 2600+ GM players, otherwise they would not have
>>>>>>gotten the title..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You are Dead Wrong again Bob, we will take the 3 Grandmasters from the previous
>>>>>>post for example. Not one of these Grandmasters was ever close to 2600 elo and
>>>>>>in fact only one of these grandmasters was able to best 2500+ elo. As usual in
>>>>>>this argument your theory falls apart in the light of FACTS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yrjola, Jouni GM
>>>>>>best elo 2515, 1984
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Westerinen, Heikki M.J. GM
>>>>>>best elo 2485, 1976
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Rantanen, Yrjo A. GM
>>>>>>best elo 2460, 1979
>>>>>
>>>>>FIDE had a "Central Committee Meeting" at Oosterbeek in Sept 1975.
>>>>>At that meeting they changed the regulations for awarding IM and GM titles.
>>>>>They approved a proposition to add rating requirement to title norms (2400 and
>>>>>2500 respectively for IM and GM titles).
>>>>
>>>>Correct, and this was good move by FIDE. As it is much harder to achieve a 2500+
>>>>elo rating the make TPR's for Grandmaster status.
>>>
>>>Do you have a statistics that proves it.
>>>
>>>Here is a way to check if you are right that the 2500+ is much harder
>>>
>>>take all the humans that achieved one of the following:
>>>1)GM norms in 2 or 3 tournaments with at least 24 games
>>>2)Rating of at least 2500
>>>
>>>I am interested to know how many of them achieved 1 first or only 1 and how many
>>>of them achieved 2 first or only 2.
>>>
>>>For this discussion humans who achieved their first rating of more than 2500
>>>based on their tournament when they got the last GM norm are considered as
>>>humans who achieved both targets at the same time
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>Let's also not forget that at that time, having a 2600+ rating put you as a
>>super GM (similar to the ~2700 GMs of today), and that at that time, the
>>international rating system was still in its infancy, so it worked with a MUCH
>>smaller pool of players. There was a time when getting a 2700 rating was
>>something akin to being a god (in chess), and until 1989 more or less, the only
>>players to have reached it were all world champions. Now it is considered a
>>select 'club' of players.
>>
>>                                       Albert
>
>It is possible to use only the last 10 years for this statistics and to avoid
>these problems.
>
>Uri


I have not studied the statistics and really don't have time to.  But I have
known, over the past (say) 10 years, at least three IM players that had FIDE
ratings over 2500, but who were still waiting to pick up the required norms.

I think the idea is that you _could_ play just 2100 players and bump your rating
to beyond 2500, but beating only 2100 players won't get you a GM norm.  So they
want consistency _and_ top-level skill...



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