Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 12:33:32 06/18/01
Go up one level in this thread
On June 18, 2001 at 15:30:20, Uri Blass wrote: >On June 18, 2001 at 15:19:45, Albert Silver wrote: > >>On June 18, 2001 at 15:04:21, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On June 18, 2001 at 14:37:04, Mark Young wrote: >>> >>>>On June 18, 2001 at 14:23:25, Peter Fendrich wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 18, 2001 at 13:41:25, Mark Young wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On June 18, 2001 at 12:42:01, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On June 18, 2001 at 08:21:54, Jouni Uski wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Here in Finland we have 3 GMs. Here's from their ratings from fide: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>500011 Yrjola, Jouni g 2419 2 24.10.1959 >>>>>>>>500020 Westerinen, Heikki M.J. g 2412 10 27.4.1944 >>>>>>>>500038 Rantanen, Yrjo A. g 2327 0 23.4.1950 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>You can give computer a knight handicap to get interesting match... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Jouni >>>>>> >>>>>>Quoted from Bob's post: >>>>>> >>>>>>"So picking a bunch of GMs with ratings of 2400 and then saying "hey, computers >>>>>>are this good, so..." doesn't make much sense. Because at _some_ point in time, >>>>>>those 2400 GM players were 2600+ GM players, otherwise they would not have >>>>>>gotten the title..." >>>>>> >>>>>>You are Dead Wrong again Bob, we will take the 3 Grandmasters from the previous >>>>>>post for example. Not one of these Grandmasters was ever close to 2600 elo and >>>>>>in fact only one of these grandmasters was able to best 2500+ elo. As usual in >>>>>>this argument your theory falls apart in the light of FACTS. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Yrjola, Jouni GM >>>>>>best elo 2515, 1984 >>>>>> >>>>>>Westerinen, Heikki M.J. GM >>>>>>best elo 2485, 1976 >>>>>> >>>>>>Rantanen, Yrjo A. GM >>>>>>best elo 2460, 1979 >>>>> >>>>>FIDE had a "Central Committee Meeting" at Oosterbeek in Sept 1975. >>>>>At that meeting they changed the regulations for awarding IM and GM titles. >>>>>They approved a proposition to add rating requirement to title norms (2400 and >>>>>2500 respectively for IM and GM titles). >>>> >>>>Correct, and this was good move by FIDE. As it is much harder to achieve a 2500+ >>>>elo rating the make TPR's for Grandmaster status. >>> >>>Do you have a statistics that proves it. >>> >>>Here is a way to check if you are right that the 2500+ is much harder >>> >>>take all the humans that achieved one of the following: >>>1)GM norms in 2 or 3 tournaments with at least 24 games >>>2)Rating of at least 2500 >>> >>>I am interested to know how many of them achieved 1 first or only 1 and how many >>>of them achieved 2 first or only 2. >>> >>>For this discussion humans who achieved their first rating of more than 2500 >>>based on their tournament when they got the last GM norm are considered as >>>humans who achieved both targets at the same time >>> >>>Uri >> >>Let's also not forget that at that time, having a 2600+ rating put you as a >>super GM (similar to the ~2700 GMs of today), and that at that time, the >>international rating system was still in its infancy, so it worked with a MUCH >>smaller pool of players. There was a time when getting a 2700 rating was >>something akin to being a god (in chess), and until 1989 more or less, the only >>players to have reached it were all world champions. Now it is considered a >>select 'club' of players. >> >> Albert > >It is possible to use only the last 10 years for this statistics and to avoid >these problems. > >Uri I have not studied the statistics and really don't have time to. But I have known, over the past (say) 10 years, at least three IM players that had FIDE ratings over 2500, but who were still waiting to pick up the required norms. I think the idea is that you _could_ play just 2100 players and bump your rating to beyond 2500, but beating only 2100 players won't get you a GM norm. So they want consistency _and_ top-level skill...
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