Author: Mark Young
Date: 07:30:36 06/19/01
The argument that Dr Hyatt and others are using in the data is skewed because some of the grandmasters are too old in the ratings list, and these old grandmasters are no longer playing at a GM Level. This is suppressing the average GM rating. Some Logical inconsistencies in this argument: I. At what rating do we exclude old Grandmasters? They have sited 2 Grandmasters GM Bent Larsen 2487 Elo age 61 and GM Vassily Smyslov 2491 age 80. Are they objecting because the players are not rated high enough to be considered GM's any more? If this is the case does this mean we also exclude all the younger GM players also that have ratings below them no matter what the age of the Grandmaster may be. Below is the list of grandmasters that must be excluded by this logic. Note the age on many of the GM’s they are not old, some are around 20 years of age. At what thresh hold rating does Bob Hyatt consider a player no longer playing at a GM level? If GM Smyslov is the standard, then does this mean anyone playing over 2491 elo is a grandmaster including Computers? II. If age is the objection, at what age do we exclude GM’s. Are we to exclude GM Viktor Korchnoi age 70 rated 2643. GM Korchnoi is clearly older then GM Larsen. Who do we exclude because of age. GM Gluko, GM Karpov, GM Huebner all older Gm players for sure. When you start cherry picking data as they insist on you run into many such conflicts in logic. 624 Smyslov, Vassily g RUS 2491 24.03.21 M 625 Kekelidze, Mikheil g GEO 2491 14.09.74 M 628 Dervishi, Erald g ALB 2491 10.11.79 M 630 Finkel, Alexander g ISR 2490 01.01.75 M 631 Liang, Jinrong g CHN 2490 21.05.60 M 633 Matanovic, Aleksandar g YUG 2490 23.05.30 M 634 Garcia, Gildardo g COL 2490 09.03.54 M 635 McShane, Luke J. g ENG 2490 07.01.84 M 636 Drazic, Sinisa g YUG 2490 16.12.67 M 637 Klovans, Janis g LAT 2490 09.04.35 M 639 Rajkovic, Dusan g YUG 2490 17.06.42 M 640 Al-Modiahki, Mohamad g QAT 2490 01.06.74 M 646 Iuldachev, Saidali g UZB 2489 31.01.68 M 647 Schmittdiel, Eckhard g GER 2489 13.05.60 M 648 Kishnev, Sergey g RUS 2489 01.11.56 M 649 Palatnik, Semon g USA 2489 26.03.50 M 652 Guseinov, Aidyn g AZE 2489 M 654 Grivas, Efstratios g GRE 2489 30.03.66 M 657 Mestel, A. Jonathan g ENG 2488 13.03.57 M 658 Vorobiov, Evgeny E. g RUS 2488 13.12.76 M 665 Larsen, Bent g DEN 2487 04.03.35 M 666 Abramovic, Bosko g YUG 2487 14.02.51 M 669 Zakharevich, Igor g RUS 2487 14.07.63 M 670 Zarnicki, Pablo g ARG 2487 12.11.72 M 673 Gutman, Lev g GER 2486 26.09.45 M 675 Janjgava, Lasha g GEO 2486 05.05.70 M 677 Lopushnoy, Denis g RUS 2485 30.01.77 M 679 Krogius, Nikolai V g RUS 2485 22.07.30 M 680 Antic, Dejan g YUG 2485 09.12.68 M 681 Farago, Ivan g HUN 2485 01.04.46 M 682 Ashley, Maurice g USA 2484 06.03.66 M 683 Velimirovic, Dragoljub g YUG 2484 12.05.42 M 686 Relange, Eloi g FRA 2484 01.07.76 M 688 Jaracz, Pawel g POL 2484 22.07.75 M 691 Kogan, Artur g ISR 2484 29.01.74 M 692 Djuric, Stefan g YUG 2483 26.07.55 M 693 Lanka, Zigurds g LAT 2483 21.05.60 M 695 Ivanovic, Bozidar g YUG 2483 24.08.49 M 697 Meduna, Eduard g CZE 2483 11.09.50 M 698 Groszpeter, Attila g HUN 2483 09.06.60 M 703 Inkiov, Ventzislav g BUL 2482 19.05.56 M 704 Urday, Henry g PER 2482 05.07.67 M 705 Brunner, Lucas g SUI 2482 29.05.67 M 707 Balinov, Ilija g AUT 2482 28.07.66 M 710 Zilberman, Yaacov g ISR 2481 26.05.54 M 716 Hatanbaatar, Bazar g MGL 2481 25.02.73 M 718 Gligoric, Svetozar g YUG 2481 02.02.23 M 724 Parma, Bruno g SLO 2480 30.12.41 M 725 Vokac, Marek g CZE 2480 06.12.58 M 729 Gausel, Einar g NOR 2480 30.11.63 M 730 Rodriguez, Amador g CUB 2480 08.09.56 M 731 Efimov, Igor g ITA 2480 16.09.60 M 734 Mohr, Georg g SLO 2480 02.02.65 M 740 Stangl, Markus g GER 2479 29.04.69 M 741 Garcia Ilundain, David g ESP 2479 02.04.71 M 745 Ermenkov, Evgenij g BUL 2478 29.09.49 M 747 Gheorghiu, Florin g ROM 2478 06.04.44 M 749 Keitlinghaus, Ludger g GER 2478 24.07.65 M 753 Todorcevic, Miodrag g YUG 2478 10.11.40 M 760 Pfleger, Helmut Dr. g GER 2477 06.08.43 M 761 Legky, Nikolay A g UKR 2477 11.04.55 M 762 Nikcevic, Nebojsa g YUG 2476 M 763 Karlsson, Lars g SWE 2476 11.07.55 M 764 Asanov, Bolat g KAZ 2476 07.05.61 M 766 Tyomkin, Dimitri g ISR 2476 25.03.77 M 767 Gurevich, Vladimir g UKR 2476 04.08.59 M 769 Flear, Glenn C. g ENG 2476 12.02.59 M 776 Lazic, Miroljub g YUG 2475 28.06.66 M 781 Rodriguez, Orestes g ESP 2474 04.07.43 M 784 Djurhuus, Rune g NOR 2474 25.01.70 M 791 Miralles, Gilles g FRA 2473 08.02.66 M 793 Olafsson, Helgi g ISL 2473 15.08.56 M 794 Gunawan, Ruben g INA 2473 17.04.68 M 796 Kouatly, Bachar g FRA 2473 03.03.58 M 800 Mainka, Romuald g GER 2472 15.05.63 M 802 Komljenovic, Davor g CRO 2472 01.07.44 M 803 Sherzer, Alex g USA 2472 01.02.71 M 804 Yandemirov, Valeri g RUS 2472 11.02.63 M 818 Panno, Oscar g ARG 2471 17.03.35 M 823 Raicevic, Vladimir g YUG 2470 02.05.49 M 824 Garcia Palermo, Carlos g ARG 2470 02.12.53 M 826 Evans, Larry M. g USA 2470 22.03.32 M 827 Petrosian, Arshak B g ARM 2470 16.12.53 M 832 Jansa, Vlastimil g CZE 2470 27.11.42 M 836 Teske, Henrik g GER 2469 28.02.68 M 838 Zlochevskij, Alexander g ITA 2469 25.06.63 M 841 Anic, Darko g FRA 2469 30.04.57 M 842 Davies, Nigel R g ENG 2469 31.07.60 M 845 Mokry, Karel g CZE 2469 07.02.59 M 846 Popchev, Milko g BUL 2469 11.11.64 M 850 Chernikov, Oleg L g RUS 2468 15.10.36 M 853 Shaked, Tal g USA 2468 05.02.78 M 870 Gufeld, Eduard g USA 2466 19.03.36 M 871 Zagrebelny, Sergey g UZB 2466 M 872 De La Villa Garcia, Jesus M. g ESP 2466 30.06.58 M 878 Vogt, Lothar g GER 2465 17.01.52 M 889 Fernandez Garcia, Jose Luis g ESP 2465 03.05.54 M 891 Filip, Miroslav g CZE 2465 27.10.28 M 892 Cebalo, Miso g CRO 2465 06.02.45 M 900 Beshukov, Sergei g RUS 2463 01.04.71 M 902 Akesson, Ralf g SWE 2463 08.02.61 M 904 Bogdanovski, Vlatko g MKD 2463 31.12.64 M 908 Sigurjonsson, Gudmundur g ISL 2463 25.09.47 M 924 Haba, Petr g CZE 2461 06.01.65 M 925 Plaskett, Jim g ENG 2461 18.03.60 M 929 Olafsson, Fridrik g ISL 2460 26.01.35 M 931 De Vreugt, Dennis g NED 2460 04.11.80 M 948 Lukacs, Peter g HUN 2458 09.07.50 M 952 Lupu, Mircea-Sergiu g FRA 2458 28.08.62 M 960 Murshed, Niaz g BAN 2457 13.05.66 M 984 Anagnostopoulos, Dimitri g GRE 2455 11.06.70 M 987 Keene, Raymond D. g ENG 2455 29.01.48 M 993 Lombardy, William J g USA 2455 04.12.37 M
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