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Subject: Re: What is:Kramnik really saying about Fritz's strength? - GM level??

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 20:27:55 06/21/01

Go up one level in this thread


On June 21, 2001 at 18:23:49, Peter McKenzie wrote:

>On June 21, 2001 at 17:28:55, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On June 21, 2001 at 16:38:58, Mark Young wrote:
>>
>>>On June 21, 2001 at 09:41:01, Pierre Bourget wrote:
>>>
>>>>From an interview at Kasparovchess site:
>>>>
>>>>One more serious contest is in store for you, the match with a computer. How are
>>>>you preparing for this match? It?s common knowledge that, in preparing for duels
>>>>with humans, you don?t rely on a computer?s help much.
>>>>
>>>>It?s true that I prefer to work in the good old fashion. Well, certainly I will
>>>>play training games at home. According to the contract, I will obtain the
>>>>printouts of the DeepFritz games in late summer.
>>>>
>>>>I take this match very seriously and I really believe that the computer will be
>>>>a hard nut to crack. The rumors that DeepFritz is a far cry from DeepBlue are
>>>>not true to life. I don?t think that DeepFritz is much weaker than DeepBlue.
>>>>However, I know that the programmers have made vast headway in the past three
>>>>years. Fritz?s play is getting stronger every year. At some moments the machine
>>>>really acquires human features - for instance, it sacrifices material with a
>>>>view to gaining the initiative. So I am not at all sure that I will be a success
>>>>at this match. Of course, the world?s strongest chess players are better at
>>>>evaluating positions than computers, but people can get tired and get caught in
>>>>time trouble and so on. The end of the match will be the most difficult stage of
>>>>all.
>>>
>>>Kramnik:
>>>"I really believe that the computer will be
>>>a hard nut to crack."
>>>
>>>Kramnik:
>>>"The rumors that DeepFritz is a far cry from DeepBlue are
>>>not true to life."
>>>
>>>Kramnik:
>>>"I don?t think that DeepFritz is much weaker than DeepBlue."
>>
>>
>>Kasparov said _exactly_ the same thing _before_ the match.  After the match,
>>he said "this was something totally new and unexpected."
>
>
>I think Fritz has improved significantly since that statement was made, the
>software is better and it runs on faster hardware.
>


Fritz hasn't improved enough to discuss when DB was capable of searching 200M to
1B nodes per second.  All the hardware in the world wouldn't get Fritz to within
10% of that total...


>
>>
>>Which statement was correct?  foresight or hindsight?
>
>It is possible that both statements are correct.

Can't be.  They are diametrically opposed.


>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Kramnik:
>>>"At some moments the machine
>>>really acquires human features - for instance, it sacrifices material with a
>>>view to gaining the initiative. So I am not at all sure that I will be a success
>>>at this match"
>>>
>>>The questions that crosses my mind when reading Kramnik?s statements:
>>>
>>>I.	Is this hype for the upcoming match?
>>
>>It is fear of looking foolish.  IE should he lose to Fritz, he _has_ to
>>say something to make it look no worse than Kasparov losing to Deep Blue.
>>He couldn't _possibly_ say "deep fritz is nowhere near deep blue" and then,
>>should the unthinkable happen and he gets blasted, have to face the public
>>after losing to something much worse than DB."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>II.	Does GM Kramnik really think he may not beat Fritz?
>>>III.	How strong does GM Kramnik think Deep Blue was?
>>
>>
>>I'd bet he has _no_ idea, that he hasn't talked to anyone that really knows
>>anything about deep blue at all.  He is either talking to the ChessBase guys
>>(the same ones that told Kasparov that if he practiced against Fritz he would
>>be well-prepared to play DB2) or talking to people that simply don't know.
>>
>>Either is not a big deal since he doesn't have to play deep blue, which means
>>that no matter what he says about DB, it won't be confirmed or disproven.
>>
>>
>>
>>>IV.	Is GM Kramnik saying Fritz is competitive at the Elite GM level?
>>>V.	Is GM Kramnik saying Fritz is a GM Level program?
>>>VI.	Are we to take GM Kramnik statements as true in his own mind?
>>
>>When the coach of the #1 college team in the nation prepares to play the #30
>>team, what does he say?  "I expect we will blow them out without working up a
>>sweat?"  or "I expect this to be a really tough game.  They are going to be
>>motivated by our #1 rating, and they have some really superb players on their
>>offense and defense.  We will be hard-pressed to win this game and probably
>>the team that gets the most lucky breaks will come away with the victory."
>>
>>Do you think the coach would ever say anything else?  IE provide "locker room"
>>incentives for the opposing coaches to use?  In that light, how would you take
>>Kramnik's comments?



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