Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 06:36:17 06/22/01
Go up one level in this thread
On June 21, 2001 at 17:28:55, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>On June 21, 2001 at 16:38:58, Mark Young wrote:
>
>>On June 21, 2001 at 09:41:01, Pierre Bourget wrote:
>>
>>>From an interview at Kasparovchess site:
>>>
>>>One more serious contest is in store for you, the match with a computer. How are
>>>you preparing for this match? It?s common knowledge that, in preparing for duels
>>>with humans, you don?t rely on a computer?s help much.
>>>
>>>It?s true that I prefer to work in the good old fashion. Well, certainly I will
>>>play training games at home. According to the contract, I will obtain the
>>>printouts of the DeepFritz games in late summer.
>>>
>>>I take this match very seriously and I really believe that the computer will be
>>>a hard nut to crack. The rumors that DeepFritz is a far cry from DeepBlue are
>>>not true to life. I don?t think that DeepFritz is much weaker than DeepBlue.
>>>However, I know that the programmers have made vast headway in the past three
>>>years. Fritz?s play is getting stronger every year. At some moments the machine
>>>really acquires human features - for instance, it sacrifices material with a
>>>view to gaining the initiative. So I am not at all sure that I will be a success
>>>at this match. Of course, the world?s strongest chess players are better at
>>>evaluating positions than computers, but people can get tired and get caught in
>>>time trouble and so on. The end of the match will be the most difficult stage of
>>>all.
>>
>>Kramnik:
>>"I really believe that the computer will be
>>a hard nut to crack."
>>
>>Kramnik:
>>"The rumors that DeepFritz is a far cry from DeepBlue are
>>not true to life."
>>
>>Kramnik:
>>"I don?t think that DeepFritz is much weaker than DeepBlue."
>
>
>Kasparov said _exactly_ the same thing _before_ the match. After the match,
>he said "this was something totally new and unexpected."
>
>Which statement was correct? foresight or hindsight?
This is about personality. Kramnik is a far nicer person as Kasparov is.
Also he would lose public attention if he would say:
"i don't know with what score but i'm going to beat this thing chanceless"
The only problem Kramnik probably has is a possible fear for the unknown.
If you know what a chessprogram is, then that fear is gone and gets replaced
for realism that the machine is as good as kramnik in some terrains (tactics,
always playing default moves and always playing forced moves)
and weaker in all the others.
For some players who make big blunders there is a big fear for the
'unknown' so called tactical accuracy of the computer. That leads
sometimes to very short games in favour of the computer.
Kramniks statement now will in no respect change my prediction for the
outcome of this match.
I'm happy that Fritz won from Junior in the end (though i can imagine
after the 5-0 lead this was a big bummer for Amir), but when compared
to a load of other programs i definitely think Fritz limited knowledge
is going to blow game after game for it.
If kramnik finds out that deep fritz knows nothing about good/bad bishop,
then it's going to be 10-0 in a very chanceless way without any draws.
Not to mention the usual weaknesses all programs show.
I guess it's important to mention that where DeepFritz does pretty well
in endgame against other programs, getting into a technical endgame
against Kramnik would be a major mistake.
this where the whole Kure book is completely focussed upon directly
exchanging into endgame in mainline ("because this program sucks
in middlegame, and all amateurs suck in endgame"), even if the endgame
is bad for Fritz.
The alternative of not using a Kure book has some high risks though
that we see pathetic computer moves.
Nevertheless it's a good thing that there is A match computer-human.
chessbase could get good PR out of this by focussing on the fact that
deepfritz will search way deeper as deep blue did!
>
>
>
>>
>>Kramnik:
>>"At some moments the machine
>>really acquires human features - for instance, it sacrifices material with a
>>view to gaining the initiative. So I am not at all sure that I will be a success
>>at this match"
>>
>>The questions that crosses my mind when reading Kramnik?s statements:
>>
>>I. Is this hype for the upcoming match?
>
>It is fear of looking foolish. IE should he lose to Fritz, he _has_ to
>say something to make it look no worse than Kasparov losing to Deep Blue.
>He couldn't _possibly_ say "deep fritz is nowhere near deep blue" and then,
>should the unthinkable happen and he gets blasted, have to face the public
>after losing to something much worse than DB."
>
>
>
>
>>II. Does GM Kramnik really think he may not beat Fritz?
>>III. How strong does GM Kramnik think Deep Blue was?
>
>
>I'd bet he has _no_ idea, that he hasn't talked to anyone that really knows
>anything about deep blue at all. He is either talking to the ChessBase guys
>(the same ones that told Kasparov that if he practiced against Fritz he would
>be well-prepared to play DB2) or talking to people that simply don't know.
>
>Either is not a big deal since he doesn't have to play deep blue, which means
>that no matter what he says about DB, it won't be confirmed or disproven.
>
>
>
>>IV. Is GM Kramnik saying Fritz is competitive at the Elite GM level?
>>V. Is GM Kramnik saying Fritz is a GM Level program?
>>VI. Are we to take GM Kramnik statements as true in his own mind?
>
>When the coach of the #1 college team in the nation prepares to play the #30
>team, what does he say? "I expect we will blow them out without working up a
>sweat?" or "I expect this to be a really tough game. They are going to be
>motivated by our #1 rating, and they have some really superb players on their
>offense and defense. We will be hard-pressed to win this game and probably
>the team that gets the most lucky breaks will come away with the victory."
>
>Do you think the coach would ever say anything else? IE provide "locker room"
>incentives for the opposing coaches to use? In that light, how would you take
>Kramnik's comments?
This page took 0.02 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.