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Subject: Re: Qualifier.

Author: Chessfun

Date: 21:25:34 06/25/01

Go up one level in this thread


On June 25, 2001 at 21:18:53, Slater Wold wrote:

>On June 25, 2001 at 20:53:41, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On June 25, 2001 at 14:58:23, Slater Wold wrote:
>>
>>>On June 25, 2001 at 10:29:08, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 25, 2001 at 08:44:09, Slater Wold wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On June 25, 2001 at 00:22:15, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On June 24, 2001 at 23:06:09, Slater Wold wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I am holding a qualifing match between ALL the top programs.  The time control
>>>>>>>will be 25/10 and it will be a 3 cycle Round Robin.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The purpose of this tournament is to qualify an engine to go against several
>>>>>>>2500+ GM's in the next 5-6 months.  These games will also be played at 25/10.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Each game will be played on a Dual Pentium III 1,000Mhz ~ 184MB hash.  Pondering
>>>>>>>will be on, and the default book will be used, at tournament levels.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>One question:  what is the point of playing computers against each other, to
>>>>>>choose one to play against a human?  Isn't this like playing 9 holes of golf
>>>>>>to choose the challenger for the world champion in the shot put?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I think that is a bad analagy.  You make a lot of them, but this might be your
>>>>>worst yet.  I think a better analagy would be, playing 18 holes of put-put golf,
>>>>>to qualify for Pebble Beach.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It wasn't nearly so bad an analogy as the "qualifier" is a bad qualifier.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Ouch.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The honest truth is, that I want to have several big games against GM's in the
>>>>>coming months, and I am unsure what the best engine would be.  So I decided to
>>>>>take an easy approach.  Play the games like I would be playing against the GM's,
>>>>>and whoever won, would play.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Flip a coin.  Your result will be just as accurate.  If you want to find the
>>>>best program to play against a human, then you should play all the programs
>>>>against the same pool of humans and see which produces the best result.  Any
>>>>other experiment is badly flawed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The point of the qualifying match is only to get a contender, nothing else.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>save time.  flip a coin.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>HUM.  It's just a tournament, to see who best deserves the oppurtunity.  It's
>>>nothing "official".  I am not even calling this an experiment.  I understand
>>>you're a man of great need of "proof" and "science" - I however am not.  This
>>>was the best I could come up with.
>>>
>>>I don't have a "pool" of 2300+ players to go against.  Plus, I believe that CT
>>>and DF might not lose a single game @ 25/10 against anyone lower than 2500.
>>>(Just an OPIONON - nothing "official".)
>>
>>
>>I can guarantee you they will lose games against 2300 players. It has already
>>happened on ICC more than once... to _all_ of us...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I am not Mark Young, Robert.  I like you, and your ideas, and everything you put
>>>into chess and computer chess.  I agree with 90% of your thoughts and ideas.
>>>Except when it comes to the idea that everything must prove or show substance.
>>>This is a QUALIFIER, because who ever wins, plays the GM's.  Perhaps it is
>>>flawed, but it's not the point.
>>>
>>>And your coin flipping theory to save time is simply non-sense.  Please don't
>>>mask your disapproval with contempt.  Or at least not at me.
>>
>>I had no "contempt" in my post I hope.  I simply pointed out that playing a
>>Comp vs Comp tournament to supposedly find the best opponent to play against
>>a human group doesn't make any sense, by any scientific measure I can think
>>of.  Playing computers and playing computers are two totally different things.
>>
>>If you read "contempt" then I certainly apologize for sounding "contemptuous".
>>It was not intended.
>>
>>But there _is_ a great deal of "typical scientific blood" coursing thru me,
>>which wants to see whatever experiments we can put together, put together as
>>scientifically rigorous as possible.
>
>YES!  I HAVE NOTICED!  And it's _NOT_ a bad thing.  Just not what I am trying to
>do here.
>
>What is the best contender?  Everyone here is going to have a different choice.
>Someone made the statement of Shredder being the best.  Shredder is far from the
>best against humans IMO.

My choice is #7 but I now see votes for 4 and 5 so it's a little
more complicated.

Sarah.





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