Author: Uri Blass
Date: 03:51:17 06/26/01
Go up one level in this thread
On June 26, 2001 at 06:31:33, Martin Schubert wrote: >On June 26, 2001 at 06:15:02, Mark Young wrote: > >>On June 26, 2001 at 06:08:34, Martin Schubert wrote: >> >>>On June 26, 2001 at 06:02:34, Mark Young wrote: >>> >>>>On June 26, 2001 at 05:58:52, Martin Schubert wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 05:39:52, Mark Young wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 05:21:27, Martin Schubert wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 05:15:56, Mark Young wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 05:06:36, Martin Schubert wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 04:53:05, Mark Young wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>ChessTiger has now produced 2 wins in a row and a draw against strong titled IM >>>>>>>>>>players. It must be noted ChessTiger is doing this on hardware that is not >>>>>>>>>>considered ultra fast PIII 866 256 MB Ram. Most people own hardware this good or >>>>>>>>>>better. This is not a chess program running on thousands of dollars with of >>>>>>>>>>equipment with 8 CPUs. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>If ChessTiger continues playing as well as it is, the 2100 elo crowd or the No >>>>>>>>>>way computers are GM crowd will have to come up with someway to explain this >>>>>>>>>>performance. As I doubt it will change anyone’s mind even if ChessTiger wins >>>>>>>>>>this tournament. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>The performance is easy to explain. Like in the tournaments last year with the >>>>>>>>>participation of Fritz and Junior a lot of players don't know how to play >>>>>>>>>against computers. There are some games which could be played by players with >>>>>>>>>rating <2000 as well. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I don’t think this that arguments passes the laugh test, most players’ trainee >>>>>>>>with some kind of computer aid, chess bases, programs etc. They have too, to >>>>>>>>compete in today’s chess tournaments. Programs have been around for many years, >>>>>>>>and I would doubt this is any players first time seeing a chess computer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Playing against computers and playing against humans are two different >>>>>>>disciplines. Maybe like 100meter and 400meter hurdles. If you practise mainly >>>>>>>for one discipline you're not that good in the other one. >>>>>>>Maybe you can take a look at Eduard Nemeth's games. He has no problem beating >>>>>>>all of the programs. His rating is maybe 2100. After reading his articles I >>>>>>>could beat Shredder 5 without much effort (my rating about 1900). >>>>>>>Just look about the game Tiger played in round 3. You want to tell me that his >>>>>>>opposite played like 2400? Like an IM? I think already the opening was a >>>>>>>disaster. >>>>>> >>>>>>Give us some analysis since you have looked at the game to back up your >>>>>>argument. >>>>>> >>>>>>I will take that challenge that you can beat a top chess program. And we will >>>>>>make it a short 10 game match at blitz time controls or any time controls you >>>>>>want. I have many years playing programs online, and you will find my opening >>>>>>book does not have many holes in it like 2 Na3. So you will need to outplay it, >>>>>>in the middle and endgame to win. >>>>> >>>>>I didn't say that I'm experienced enough to beat a program in match. But it's a >>>>>matter of training. I'm not interested in that. >>>>>But ask Eduard Nemeth. I'm sure he can beat a top chess program in a 10 game >>>>>match. >>>> >>>>Sorry I just took you at your word: >>>> >>>>"After reading his articles I >>>>could beat Shredder 5 without much effort (my rating about 1900)." >>> >>>Did I say that I can beat it every time? Did I say I can beat it with black? >>>But I don't think I can beat an IM or GM even one time. >> >>And that is my exact point, it is easy to exploit the computer when you can >>control what the computer plays, how it plays etc. Not exactly tournament >>conditions is it!? >> >No, not exactly tournament conditions. >But to repeat it again. You have to play different against computers than >against humans. Do you agree? >You have to keep positions closed. That's not easy. But you can practise how to >play against computers. But that needs time. And the IM's and GM'S don't do this >because they earn money for playing humans. So of course they're not that >experienced in playing computers than in playing humans. >If they practised like Eduard does they would win much more. But they don't. Of >course they don't. Nemeth's tactics of 1.e4 c5 2.Na3 from the last game could not help at tournament time control Here is the proof At blitz tiger may play Ke6 but at tournament time control tiger is going to play Kg8 and the sacrifice of nemeth is a practical mistake. Nemeth,E - Hiarcs 7.32,P [D]r1bq1b1r/pp1ppkpp/2n5/7Q/3pn3/N6P/PPP2PP1/R1B1K1NR b KQ - 0 1 Analysis by Chess Tiger 14.0: 7...Ke6 8.Ne2 Qa5+ -+ (-3.64) Depth: 8 00:00:00 80kN 7...Ke6 8.Ne2 g6 9.Nf4+ Kf6 10.Nxg6 Qe8 11.Qf3+ Kxg6 12.Qg4+ Kf7 13.Qxe4 -+ (-3.72) Depth: 8 00:00:00 127kN 7...Ke6 8.Ne2 g6 9.Qg4+ Ke5 10.f3 Nf6 11.Bf4+ Kd5 12.c4+ Kc5 13.Qg5+ d5 -+ (-3.62) Depth: 9 00:00:01 333kN 7...Ke6 -+ (-2.72) Depth: 10 00:00:06 1126kN 7...Ke6 8.Qg4+ Kd5 9.c4+ dxc3 10.bxc3 Qa5 11.Qf5+ e5 12.Qf7+ Kc5 13.Qc4+ Kd6 14.Qd3+ Kc7 15.Qxe4 Bxa3 16.Bxa3 -+ (-3.52) Depth: 10 00:00:08 1511kN 7...Ke6 8.Qg4+ Kd5 9.c4+ dxc3 10.bxc3 Qa5 11.Qf5+ e5 12.Qf7+ Kc5 13.Qc4+ Kd6 14.Qd3+ -+ (-3.52) Depth: 11 00:00:15 3072kN 7...Ke6 8.Qg4+ Kd5 9.c4+ dxc3 10.bxc3 Qa5 11.Bb2 Qa4 12.Rd1+ Kc5 13.Rd4 Nxd4 14.Qxe4 Kd6 15.Qxd4+ Qxd4 -+ (-2.80) Depth: 12 00:00:29 5992kN 7...Ke6 8.Qg4+ Kd5 9.c4+ dxc3 10.Qd1+ Ke6 11.Qg4+ Kf7 12.Qxe4 cxb2 13.Bxb2 e6 14.Qf4+ Kg8 15.Nb5 Bb4+ 16.Bc3 -+ (-2.32) Depth: 13 00:02:01 26695kN 7...Kg8 8.Qd5+ e6 9.Qxe4 Bb4+ 10.Bd2 Bxd2+ 11.Kxd2 d5 12.Qd3 e5 13.Ke1 a6 14.Ne2 Nb4 15.Qd2 Qe7 -+ (-2.60) Depth: 13 00:02:29 32011kN 7...Kg8 8.Qd5+ e6 9.Qxe4 Bb4+ 10.Kf1 d5 11.Qe2 e5 12.Bd2 Bxd2 13.Qxd2 Bf5 14.Nf3 Be4 15.Ng5 Bf5 -+ (-2.68) Depth: 14 00:02:50 35800kN 7...Kg8 8.Qd5+ e6 9.Qxe4 Bb4+ 10.Bd2 Bxd2+ 11.Kxd2 d5 12.Qf3 e5 13.Ke2 Be6 14.Qb3 Qc7 15.Nb5 Qf7 16.Nd6 Qg6 -+ (-2.62) Depth: 15 00:04:02 48690kN (Blass, Tel-Aviv 26.06.2001) Hiarcs and crafty can also see Kg8 at tournament time control but not at blitz. Uri
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