Author: Mark Young
Date: 03:54:41 06/26/01
Go up one level in this thread
On June 26, 2001 at 06:51:17, Uri Blass wrote: >On June 26, 2001 at 06:31:33, Martin Schubert wrote: > >>On June 26, 2001 at 06:15:02, Mark Young wrote: >> >>>On June 26, 2001 at 06:08:34, Martin Schubert wrote: >>> >>>>On June 26, 2001 at 06:02:34, Mark Young wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 05:58:52, Martin Schubert wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 05:39:52, Mark Young wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 05:21:27, Martin Schubert wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 05:15:56, Mark Young wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 05:06:36, Martin Schubert wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 04:53:05, Mark Young wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>ChessTiger has now produced 2 wins in a row and a draw against strong titled IM >>>>>>>>>>>players. It must be noted ChessTiger is doing this on hardware that is not >>>>>>>>>>>considered ultra fast PIII 866 256 MB Ram. Most people own hardware this good or >>>>>>>>>>>better. This is not a chess program running on thousands of dollars with of >>>>>>>>>>>equipment with 8 CPUs. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>If ChessTiger continues playing as well as it is, the 2100 elo crowd or the No >>>>>>>>>>>way computers are GM crowd will have to come up with someway to explain this >>>>>>>>>>>performance. As I doubt it will change anyone’s mind even if ChessTiger wins >>>>>>>>>>>this tournament. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>The performance is easy to explain. Like in the tournaments last year with the >>>>>>>>>>participation of Fritz and Junior a lot of players don't know how to play >>>>>>>>>>against computers. There are some games which could be played by players with >>>>>>>>>>rating <2000 as well. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I don’t think this that arguments passes the laugh test, most players’ trainee >>>>>>>>>with some kind of computer aid, chess bases, programs etc. They have too, to >>>>>>>>>compete in today’s chess tournaments. Programs have been around for many years, >>>>>>>>>and I would doubt this is any players first time seeing a chess computer. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Playing against computers and playing against humans are two different >>>>>>>>disciplines. Maybe like 100meter and 400meter hurdles. If you practise mainly >>>>>>>>for one discipline you're not that good in the other one. >>>>>>>>Maybe you can take a look at Eduard Nemeth's games. He has no problem beating >>>>>>>>all of the programs. His rating is maybe 2100. After reading his articles I >>>>>>>>could beat Shredder 5 without much effort (my rating about 1900). >>>>>>>>Just look about the game Tiger played in round 3. You want to tell me that his >>>>>>>>opposite played like 2400? Like an IM? I think already the opening was a >>>>>>>>disaster. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Give us some analysis since you have looked at the game to back up your >>>>>>>argument. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I will take that challenge that you can beat a top chess program. And we will >>>>>>>make it a short 10 game match at blitz time controls or any time controls you >>>>>>>want. I have many years playing programs online, and you will find my opening >>>>>>>book does not have many holes in it like 2 Na3. So you will need to outplay it, >>>>>>>in the middle and endgame to win. >>>>>> >>>>>>I didn't say that I'm experienced enough to beat a program in match. But it's a >>>>>>matter of training. I'm not interested in that. >>>>>>But ask Eduard Nemeth. I'm sure he can beat a top chess program in a 10 game >>>>>>match. >>>>> >>>>>Sorry I just took you at your word: >>>>> >>>>>"After reading his articles I >>>>>could beat Shredder 5 without much effort (my rating about 1900)." >>>> >>>>Did I say that I can beat it every time? Did I say I can beat it with black? >>>>But I don't think I can beat an IM or GM even one time. >>> >>>And that is my exact point, it is easy to exploit the computer when you can >>>control what the computer plays, how it plays etc. Not exactly tournament >>>conditions is it!? >>> >>No, not exactly tournament conditions. >>But to repeat it again. You have to play different against computers than >>against humans. Do you agree? >>You have to keep positions closed. That's not easy. But you can practise how to >>play against computers. But that needs time. And the IM's and GM'S don't do this >>because they earn money for playing humans. So of course they're not that >>experienced in playing computers than in playing humans. >>If they practised like Eduard does they would win much more. But they don't. Of >>course they don't. > > >Nemeth's tactics of 1.e4 c5 2.Na3 from the last game could not help at >tournament time control That you for the analysis, thats what many here have been saying.... > >Here is the proof > >At blitz tiger may play Ke6 but at tournament time control tiger is going to >play Kg8 and the sacrifice of nemeth is a practical mistake. > >Nemeth,E - Hiarcs 7.32,P >[D]r1bq1b1r/pp1ppkpp/2n5/7Q/3pn3/N6P/PPP2PP1/R1B1K1NR b KQ - 0 1 > >Analysis by Chess Tiger 14.0: > >7...Ke6 8.Ne2 Qa5+ > -+ (-3.64) Depth: 8 00:00:00 80kN >7...Ke6 8.Ne2 g6 9.Nf4+ Kf6 10.Nxg6 Qe8 11.Qf3+ Kxg6 12.Qg4+ Kf7 13.Qxe4 > -+ (-3.72) Depth: 8 00:00:00 127kN >7...Ke6 8.Ne2 g6 9.Qg4+ Ke5 10.f3 Nf6 11.Bf4+ Kd5 12.c4+ Kc5 13.Qg5+ d5 > -+ (-3.62) Depth: 9 00:00:01 333kN >7...Ke6 > -+ (-2.72) Depth: 10 00:00:06 1126kN >7...Ke6 8.Qg4+ Kd5 9.c4+ dxc3 10.bxc3 Qa5 11.Qf5+ e5 12.Qf7+ Kc5 13.Qc4+ Kd6 >14.Qd3+ Kc7 15.Qxe4 Bxa3 16.Bxa3 > -+ (-3.52) Depth: 10 00:00:08 1511kN >7...Ke6 8.Qg4+ Kd5 9.c4+ dxc3 10.bxc3 Qa5 11.Qf5+ e5 12.Qf7+ Kc5 13.Qc4+ Kd6 >14.Qd3+ > -+ (-3.52) Depth: 11 00:00:15 3072kN >7...Ke6 8.Qg4+ Kd5 9.c4+ dxc3 10.bxc3 Qa5 11.Bb2 Qa4 12.Rd1+ Kc5 13.Rd4 Nxd4 >14.Qxe4 Kd6 15.Qxd4+ Qxd4 > -+ (-2.80) Depth: 12 00:00:29 5992kN >7...Ke6 8.Qg4+ Kd5 9.c4+ dxc3 10.Qd1+ Ke6 11.Qg4+ Kf7 12.Qxe4 cxb2 13.Bxb2 e6 >14.Qf4+ Kg8 15.Nb5 Bb4+ 16.Bc3 > -+ (-2.32) Depth: 13 00:02:01 26695kN >7...Kg8 8.Qd5+ e6 9.Qxe4 Bb4+ 10.Bd2 Bxd2+ 11.Kxd2 d5 12.Qd3 e5 13.Ke1 a6 14.Ne2 >Nb4 15.Qd2 Qe7 > -+ (-2.60) Depth: 13 00:02:29 32011kN >7...Kg8 8.Qd5+ e6 9.Qxe4 Bb4+ 10.Kf1 d5 11.Qe2 e5 12.Bd2 Bxd2 13.Qxd2 Bf5 14.Nf3 >Be4 15.Ng5 Bf5 > -+ (-2.68) Depth: 14 00:02:50 35800kN >7...Kg8 8.Qd5+ e6 9.Qxe4 Bb4+ 10.Bd2 Bxd2+ 11.Kxd2 d5 12.Qf3 e5 13.Ke2 Be6 >14.Qb3 Qc7 15.Nb5 Qf7 16.Nd6 Qg6 > -+ (-2.62) Depth: 15 00:04:02 48690kN > >(Blass, Tel-Aviv 26.06.2001) > >Hiarcs and crafty can also see Kg8 at tournament time control but not at blitz. > >Uri
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