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Subject: Re: Check with Eduard

Author: Mark Young

Date: 06:25:16 06/26/01

Go up one level in this thread


On June 26, 2001 at 09:14:19, Chessfun wrote:

>On June 26, 2001 at 09:09:43, Mark Young wrote:
>
>>On June 26, 2001 at 09:01:43, Chessfun wrote:
>>
>>>On June 26, 2001 at 08:47:39, Mark Young wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 08:40:58, Chessfun wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 08:09:58, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 07:14:55, Chessfun wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 06:25:16, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 00:17:21, Chessfun wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On June 25, 2001 at 22:01:57, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On June 25, 2001 at 21:54:07, Mike S. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On June 25, 2001 at 18:15:41, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>The results are bogus anyway, I can sit at home and win games as he did....Let
>>>>>>>>>>>>me run the computer against Eduard....I bet the results would be much different.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Why does he not play a 20 game match, the computer will learn what he is doing
>>>>>>>>>>>>and pick a different way of playing against 2.Na3 Then he is toast.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>What matters then, is the single game (each) with a brilliant win against the
>>>>>>>>>>>program, and not, if the learning feature may avoid repetition (or if some games
>>>>>>>>>>>may be lost beforehand). That's not the point, but that these games can happen
>>>>>>>>>>>at least once on each computer. I would be glad if I were capable of winning
>>>>>>>>>>>such games regularly (I have some, but very few old one's).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Furthermore, why call the results bogus, unless you have evidence that these
>>>>>>>>>>>games aren't reproduceable or possible? That's not quite fair IMO.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>The point is we are talking about games under tournament conditions, not games
>>>>>>>>>>sitting at home at blitz times, with no controls. Anyone can sit, play with the
>>>>>>>>>>program, and produce games like this, but its not the same when you don't have
>>>>>>>>>>control of the screen, program, and the settings of the program.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>To me I see a different point.
>>>>>>>>>Try playing a GM 50 times and see how many you'll win.
>>>>>>>>>Forget the time controls for a second as IMO Eduard could easily
>>>>>>>>>repeat this at tournament controls as I feel I also could.
>>>>>>>>>Computers are known for being better at blitz than GM's simply log
>>>>>>>>>onto ICC and have a look. With a computer once you find the path to
>>>>>>>>>the win in most cases the path remains open. Simply play out of book
>>>>>>>>>asap if you win the computer in all liklihood will repeat it's same mistakes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Try that against a GM.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You tell me a GM who is willing to be exploited like we can the computer
>>>>>>>>programs, and I might be able to produce a draw or a win also.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Can I program holes in the human GMs book to let me FOOLS mate him. :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You can't "fools mate" any current program. Most program books are clearly
>>>>>>>good enough and most strong humans who play them play book lines to about 15
>>>>>>>moves.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Now there are *rules* on how you can exploit the programs....I see.
>>>>>
>>>>>What are you talking about?.
>>>>>Show me any quick mate against a pc, typically they are all out
>>>>>of book not in book.
>>>>
>>>>>Show me some program holes that allow remember the word you used, "fools mate".
>>>>
>>>>Easy, the program allows me to program book lines. The program allows
>>>>this...yes. I can choose anyway I wish to exploit the program as you guys have
>>>>done....Unless you are saying there are now rules on how we can exploit the
>>>>program.
>>>
>>>The rules to me are simple.
>>>Take program x use program x's opening book.
>>>What is the point of programming a book line to allow "fools mate".
>>>
>>>I have seen no posted game where something like that has been done?.
>>>or to quote you "as you guys have done." so please show me?.
>>
>>What are you talking about, we are talking about ways to exploit the computer
>>program, my way is just easier, but it has the same result and standing.
>
>Your way IMO is a simple waste of time.
>Again I quote "as you guys have done." so please show me?.

Check with Eduard! Because his method is just a way to exploit the programs. And
you seem to agree with it. no...



>
>Sarah.



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