Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: What is:Kramnik really saying about Fritz's strength? - GM level??

Author: Sandro Necchi

Date: 23:35:22 06/28/01

Go up one level in this thread


On June 25, 2001 at 03:32:24, Uri Blass wrote:

>On June 25, 2001 at 00:52:23, Sandro Necchi wrote:
>
>>On June 24, 2001 at 15:15:21, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On June 24, 2001 at 14:27:12, Sandro Necchi wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 24, 2001 at 03:25:13, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On June 24, 2001 at 00:33:34, Sandro Necchi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On June 22, 2001 at 10:58:35, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On June 22, 2001 at 09:36:17, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>chessbase could get good PR out of this by focussing on the fact that
>>>>>>>>deepfritz will search way deeper as deep blue did!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Not a single chance in hell this would happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>yes,  you are, as always, 100% correct.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I really do not understand how people can think a chess program which can play
>>>>>>about 2200 in close positions and 2600 in open positions (extimated ratings)
>>>>>>against one of the strongest player of the World can have any chance expecially
>>>>>>since the human player will know exactly what the opponent will play. This would
>>>>>>bring down the strenght of the program of at least another 200 points!
>>>>>
>>>>>Fritz is better than 2600 in open positions and 2200 in closed position.
>>>>>
>>>>>2900 in open positions and 2500 in closed position seems to be more realistic.
>>>>
>>>>No if talking about human Elo. I do not believe it.
>>>>>
>>>>>A computer with rating of 2600 in open positions and 2200 in closed position
>>>>>could not get performance of more than 2400 against humans even if the humans do
>>>>>no special preperation and old Fritz got prerformance of more than 2400 in the
>>>>>israeli league on hardware that is clearly slower than the hardware against
>>>>>kramnik even after part of the humans did special preperation.
>>>>
>>>>Ok, but the computers are very good against chess players up to 2500 Elo, so
>>>>this may give the impression they play about 2600 as an average.
>>>>Against stronger opponents (2650 and above) they would score less.
>>>
>>>The opposite
>>>Against strong humans they score more points
>>>The best performance of computers against humans was not against weak 2400
>>>players but against players with average rating of 2702.
>>
>>At blitz and fast games not at slow games.

Dear Uri,
>
>No
>I am talking about the best performance at tournament time control(if you do not
>include deeper blue)

Yes, but a performance in a tournament is not the same like to play a match
against a strong player. Also the strongest players were the ones to know less
about chess programs until they started to score better. So I believe in a
match, expecially after studying the opponent, a strong GM would score quite
high against a chess program.
I was, together with Marty Hirsch, the first one to beat a GM (Igor Efimov) in a
match at slow games (6).
So I know the problems...
>
>Deep Junior got this best performance of 2702 at 2 hours/40 moves games in
>dortmund.

Yes I know, but it was one time. After 3 or 4 of these performances we can thing
about these ratings.
>
>Uri

Sandro



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.