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Subject: Re: Some tree numbers

Author: TEERAPONG TOVIRAT

Date: 11:20:58 06/29/01

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On June 29, 2001 at 12:32:11, Ralf Elvsén wrote:

>On June 29, 2001 at 11:55:08, TEERAPONG TOVIRAT wrote:
>
>>
>>Hi Ralf,
>
>Hi
>
>>
>>>For even search depths: the ratio is (3w + 1)/(w + 3)
>>>For odd search depths: the ratio is w*(w + 3)/(3w + 1)
>>
>>
>>Do these 2 formula vary with depth? I mean is it true for depth=2,3
>>and depth = 9 ,10?
>
>Here are the exact numbers (from an exact count, no approximations):
>
>
>1              36
>2              2,891891892
>3              13,31481481
>4              2,799861015
>5              12,89826303
>6              2,795078971
>7              12,8813837
>8              2,794879467
>9              12,88075654
>10             2,794872061
>
>As you can see, the formulas I gave get "pretty true" quickly.
>I have exakt versions as well, but I will only take the trouble
>to type them if you really want to see them. They are not as
>nice as the approximations I gave.
>
>
>>
>>
>>>There is a pretty extreme odd-even effect. For e.g. w = 36
>>>we have 2.8 (even) and 12.9 (odd).
>>>
>>
>>I'm quite surprised to know there is a big difference between odd
>>and even ply. How do you explain this phenomenon?
>>IMHO, it's the effect of  Searchroot(). We don't have cutoff in Searchroot().
>>So,the ratio of Move()/Gen() is 36 at the first ply.
>>Otherwise,I don't see any difference between ply .
>>It's the same recursive function .
>>
>>Teerapong
>
>Well, first you have the well known odd-even effect in the number
>of leaf nodes. When going from even depth to odd depth the number
>of leaf nodes increases by a factor of w/2, while when going from
>odd to even, this factor is only 2.
>
>So, when going from even to odd you get many more leaf nodes which
>gives many more makemoves. On the other hand, the nodes that were
>leaf nodes in the previous (even) depth, now will increase the
>movegen-count, but they were not so many.
>
>Perhaps I should make this clear:
>makemoves = total number of nodes - 1 (the rootnode).
>movegens = total number of nodes - leaf nodes.
>
>
>
>If you look at the odd-even effect for leaf nodes
>first, it will make sense.
>
>Ralf


After more than an hour of thought and calculation,I think
you calculate the formulas by...

ply 1 nodes= w
ply 2 nodes= 2w
ply 3 nodes= square of w
ply 4 and so on...

then  ratio= move()/gen() by the definition.

The experiment result comfirm your calculation,I agree with you.
I admit this is new to me.  I wonder is there any secret about alpha-beta
that I still don't know?  But, more suprised for me...
Let's modify your formula,in our case w is much more than 1 and 3.
So,the first one becomes 3 and the second becomes w/3.
Then,the geometric mean of this 2 figures is square root of w .


Thanks for all data and explanation.

Teerapong




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