Author: Eduard Nemeth
Date: 11:46:42 07/07/01
Go up one level in this thread
On July 07, 2001 at 14:07:04, Chessfun wrote:
>On July 07, 2001 at 14:02:22, Chessfun wrote:
>
>>On July 07, 2001 at 13:51:55, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On July 07, 2001 at 13:11:48, Eduard Nemeth wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 07, 2001 at 09:44:08, Martin Müller wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>>It is quite sad to see a famous program as DJ7 to loose that _way_. Not the loss
>>>>>is important. But how it looses. The evalutaion differed up to 3 or more pawns
>>>>>against several reputated programs. It makes me think that the evaluation of the
>>>>>program is not quite correct. Just see that:
>>>>>
>>>>>{\rtf1\ansi\deff0{\fonttbl{\f0\froman FigurineCB AriesSP;}{\f1\fnil
>>>>>DiagramTTFritz;}}{\info{\author
>>>>>Müller,Martin}{\creatim\yr2001\mo7\dy7\hr15\min38}}\fs20 {\pard \ql {\b \fs24
>>>>>(455) Deep Shredder,G - Deep Junior 7 [E48]\par}{\plain \fs20 Level=Blitz:60'.
>>>>>Z\'FCrich, 07.07.2001\par}}{\qj {\b {\plain \fs20 716MB, j7book.ctg. LINKS
>>>>> }1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e3 c5 5.Bd3 Nc6 6.Nge2 cxd4 7.exd4 d5 8.cxd5 Nxd5
>>>>>9.0\'960 0\'960 10.Nxd5 Qxd5 11.a3 Be7 12.Be3 Rd8 13.Nc3 Qd7 {\plain \fs20
>>>>>0.10/16 2:34 }14.Qc2 Nxd4 {\plain \fs20 0.33/18 1:47 }15.Bxh7+ Kh8 {\plain
>>>>>\fs20 0.37/19 1:58 }16.Bxd4 Qxd4 {\plain \fs20 0.48/17 51 }17.Rad1 Qh4
>>>>>{\plain \fs20 0.43/17 2:10 }18.Be4 Bd7 {\plain \fs20 0.52/17 2:16 }19.Rd3
>>>>>e5 {\plain \fs20 0.00/17 5 }20.Bxb7 Rab8 {\plain \fs20 0.36/15 49 }21.Be4
>>>>>g6 {\plain \fs20 0.39/16 1:25 }22.b4 Be6 {\plain \fs20 0.44/16 2:00
>>>>>}23.Nd5 Bd6 {\plain \fs20 0.52/14 1:08 }24.Rfd1 Rdc8 {\plain \fs20 0.57/16
>>>>>2:34 }25.Qe2 Kg7 {\plain \fs20 0.72/16 1:50 }26.g3 Qh8 {\plain \fs20
>>>>>0.87/16 40 }27.Qe3 Bg4 {\plain \fs20 1.08/16 3:24 }28.Re1 Bh3 {\plain \fs20
>>>>> 1.24/17 1:39 }29.Qxa7 Qf8 {\plain \fs20 1.30/17 1:52 }30.Qe3 Rd8 {\plain
>>>>>\fs20 1.29/16 1:55 }31.Red1 Qe8 {\plain \fs20 1.30/16 1:30 }32.Bf3 Qe6
>>>>>{\plain \fs20 1.40/16 55 }33.Nc3 Bc7 {\plain \fs20 1.11/16 48 }34.Rxd8
>>>>>Bxd8 {\plain \fs20 0.00/18 5 }35.Nd5 Qf5 {\plain \fs20 1.37/18 2:36 }36.a4
>>>>>Bg5 {\plain \fs20 1.42/17 2:34 }37.Qe2 Rc8 {\plain \fs20 1.50/17 1:01
>>>>>}38.a5 Rc2 {\plain \fs20 1.98/18 5 }39.Ne3 Bxe3 {\plain \fs20 0.00/19 5
>>>>>}40.Qxe3 Ra2 {\plain \fs20 0.00/18 5 }41.Bd5 Ra4 {\plain \fs20 0.00/18 5
>>>>>}42.Qc3 Qh5 {\plain \fs20 2.07/16 10 }43.Re1 Qf5 {\plain \fs20 0.00/18 6
>>>>>}44.Bb3 Ra3 {\plain \fs20 2.27/17 41 }45.Qb2 Qf3 {\plain \fs20 2.40/18 3:06
>>>>> }46.Qxe5+ Qf6 {\plain \fs20 #1/20 5 }47.Qxf6+ Kxf6 {\plain \fs20 #1/21 6
>>>>>}48.Bd5 Bd7 {\plain \fs20 2.48/21 5 }49.f4 Bb5 {\plain \fs20 2.32/17 30
>>>>>}50.Rc1 Ke7 {\plain \fs20 2.68/18 26 }51.Kf2 Ra4 {\plain \fs20 2.37/17 43
>>>>>}52.Re1+ Kf6 {\plain \fs20 2.37/18 44 }53.Rb1 Ke7 {\plain \fs20 0.00/21 5
>>>>>}54.Ke3 f6 {\plain \fs20 2.69/18 1:27 }55.Kd4 Kd6 {\plain \fs20 2.80/21 5
>>>>>}56.Bf7 g5 {\plain \fs20 2.62/17 33 }57.h4 gxh4 {\plain \fs20 2.62/16 29
>>>>>}58.gxh4 Ra3 {\plain \fs20 0.00/21 5 }59.Bb3 Bd7 {\plain \fs20 0.00/21 5
>>>>>}60.h5 Bf5 {\plain \fs20 3.19/21 5 }61.Rb2 Kc7 {\plain \fs20 0.00/20 5
>>>>>}62.h6 Kb8 {\plain \fs20 3.54/18 1:00 }63.Bd5 Kc7 {\plain \fs20 0.00/19 5
>>>>>}64.Rb3 Ra1 {\plain \fs20 0.00/21 5 }65.Rc3+ Kb8{\plain \fs20 4.40/18 3 }
>>>>>1\'960}\par \par}\par}
>>>>>
>>>>>Deep Shredder,G - Deep Junior 7 [E48]
>>>>>Level=Blitz:60'. Zürich, 07.07.2001
>>>>>
>>>>> 716MB, j7book.ctg. LINKS
>>>>> 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e3 c5 5.Bd3 Nc6 6.Nge2 cxd4 7.exd4 d5 8.cxd5 Nxd5
>>>>>9.0-0 0-0 10.Nxd5 Qxd5 11.a3 Be7 12.Be3 Rd8 13.Nc3 Qd7 0.10/16 2:34 14.Qc2
>>>>>Nxd4 0.33/18 1:47 15.Bxh7+ Kh8 0.37/19 1:58 16.Bxd4 Qxd4 0.48/17 51
>>>>>17.Rad1 Qh4 0.43/17 2:10 18.Be4 Bd7 0.52/17 2:16 19.Rd3 e5 0.00/17 5
>>>>>20.Bxb7 Rab8 0.36/15 49 21.Be4 g6 0.39/16 1:25 22.b4 Be6 0.44/16 2:00
>>>>>23.Nd5 Bd6 0.52/14 1:08 24.Rfd1 Rdc8 0.57/16 2:34 25.Qe2 Kg7 0.72/16
>>>>>1:50 26.g3 Qh8 0.87/16 40 27.Qe3 Bg4 1.08/16 3:24 28.Re1 Bh3 1.24/17
>>>>>1:39 29.Qxa7 Qf8 1.30/17 1:52 30.Qe3 Rd8 1.29/16 1:55 31.Red1 Qe8
>>>>>1.30/16 1:30 32.Bf3 Qe6 1.40/16 55 33.Nc3 Bc7 1.11/16 48 34.Rxd8 Bxd8
>>>>>0.00/18 5 35.Nd5 Qf5 1.37/18 2:36 36.a4 Bg5 1.42/17 2:34 37.Qe2 Rc8
>>>>>1.50/17 1:01 38.a5 Rc2 1.98/18 5 39.Ne3 Bxe3 0.00/19 5 40.Qxe3 Ra2
>>>>>0.00/18 5 41.Bd5 Ra4 0.00/18 5 42.Qc3 Qh5 2.07/16 10 43.Re1 Qf5 0.00/18
>>>>> 6 44.Bb3 Ra3 2.27/17 41 45.Qb2 Qf3 2.40/18 3:06 46.Qxe5+ Qf6 #1/20 5
>>>>>47.Qxf6+ Kxf6 #1/21 6 48.Bd5 Bd7 2.48/21 5 49.f4 Bb5 2.32/17 30 50.Rc1
>>>>>Ke7 2.68/18 26 51.Kf2 Ra4 2.37/17 43 52.Re1+ Kf6 2.37/18 44 53.Rb1 Ke7
>>>>>0.00/21 5 54.Ke3 f6 2.69/18 1:27 55.Kd4 Kd6 2.80/21 5 56.Bf7 g5 2.62/17
>>>>> 33 57.h4 gxh4 2.62/16 29 58.gxh4 Ra3 0.00/21 5 59.Bb3 Bd7 0.00/21 5
>>>>>60.h5 Bf5 3.19/21 5 61.Rb2 Kc7 0.00/20 5 62.h6 Kb8 3.54/18 1:00 63.Bd5
>>>>>Kc7 0.00/19 5 64.Rb3 Ra1 0.00/21 5 65.Rc3+ Kb8 4.40/18 3 1-0
>>>>>
>>>>>Or
>>>>>
>>>>>Century 3 viz Deep Junior 7
>>>>>
>>>>>1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e3 c5 5.Bd3 Nc6 6.Ng-e2 cxd4 7.exd4 d5 8.cxd5 Nxd5
>>>>>9.O-O O-O 10.Nxd5 Qxd5 11.a3 Be7 12.Be3 Rd8 13.Nc3 Qd7 14.Qc2 Nxd4 15.Bxh7+ Kh8
>>>>>16.Bxd4 Qxd4 17.Ra-d1 Qh4 18.Be4 Bd7 19.Rd3 e5 20.Bxb7 Ra-b8 21.Be4 g6 22.b4 Be6
>>>>>23.Nd5 Bd6 24.Rf-d1 Rd-c8 25.Qe2 Kg7 26.g3 Qh8 27.Qe3 Bg4 28.Re1 Bh3 29.Qxa7 Qf8
>>>>>30.Qe3 Rc-d8 31.Re-d1 Qe8 32.Bf3 Qe6 33.Nc3 Bc7 34.Rd3xd8 Bxd8 35.Nd5 Qf5 36.a4
>>>>>Bg5 37.Qe2 Rc8 38.a5 Rc2 39.Ne3 Bxe3 40.Qxe3 Ra2 41.Bd5 Ra4 42.Qc3 Qh5 43.Re1
>>>>>Qf5 44.Bb3 Ra3 45.Qb2 Qf3 46.Qxe5+ Qf6 47.Qxf6+ Kxf6 48.Bd5 Bd7 49.f4 Bb5 50.Rc1
>>>>>Ke7 51.Kf2 Ra4 52.Re1+ Kf6 53.Rb1 Ke7 54.Ke3 f6 55.Kd4 Kd6 56.Bf7 g5 57.h4 gxh4
>>>>>58.gxh4 Ra3 59.Bb3 Bd7 60.h5 Bf5 61.Rb2 Kc7 62.h6 Kb8 63.Bd5 Kc7 64.Rb3 Ra1
>>>>>65.Rc3+ Kb8 66.Rc6 Resigns
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Century 3 on a mûch slower 1 processor computer.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>DJ7 does not see the problems it seems. What is wrong with DJ7?
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards
>>>>>Martin
>>>>
>>>>Hello all!
>>>>
>>>>(I play too by this tournament with Nimzo 8x)
>>>>
>>>>I cannot some moves from Dj7 understand!
>>>>
>>>>In first game against Century x, was the theoretical move 12.e4 an "bad move".
>>>>Stronger for withe is 12.Ne4! After 12.e4 e5! have black a better chance!
>>>>
>>>>In game 2 I can with all my programs move 18...Bd7? not find! It was a bad move
>>>>too! Better was 18...f5 or Bd6, or not?
>>>>
>>>>Have somebody Dj7 and can post a analysis by Dj7 in this position:
>>>>
>>>>[D]r1br3k/pp2bpp1/4p3/8/4B2q/P1N5/1PQ2PPP/3R1RK1 b - - 0 18
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>Eduard
>>>
>>>Here is some analysis of Junior7 on a slow p200(I told it time control of 10
>>>hours/40 moves)
>>>
>>>blass,u - Junior 7
>>>r1br3k/pp2bpp1/4p3/8/4B2q/P1N5/1PQ2PPP/3R1RK1 b - - 0 1
>>>
>>>Analysis by Junior 7:
>>>
>>>1...Bd6 2.h3
>>> = (-0.24) Depth: 3 00:00:00
>>>1...Bd6 2.h3
>>> = (-0.24) Depth: 3 00:00:00
>>>1...Bd6 2.g3 Qh5 3.Rfe1 Qh3
>>> = (-0.02) Depth: 6 00:00:00 14kN
>>>1...Bd6 2.g3
>>> ² (0.28) Depth: 9 00:00:01 111kN
>>>1...Rxd1 2.Rxd1 a5 3.g3 Qh3 4.Bg2 Qh5 5.Rd4
>>> ² (0.26) Depth: 9 00:00:02 234kN
>>>1...Rxd1 2.Rxd1 f5 3.Rd3 Qf6 4.Rh3+ Kg8 5.Bf3 Qd4 6.Ne2 Qd6
>>> ² (0.51) Depth: 12 00:00:10 1369kN
>>>1...Bd6 2.g3 Qh5 3.Rd3 a5 4.Qd1 Qxd1 5.Rfxd1 Ra6 6.Rd4
>>> = (0.19) Depth: 12 00:00:24 3413kN
>>>1...Bd6 2.g3
>>> ² (0.49) Depth: 15 00:02:57 24328kN
>>>1...Bd7 2.Bxb7 Rab8 3.Be4 g6 4.g3 Qh3 5.Bg2 Qh5 6.Rfe1
>>> ² (0.34) Depth: 15 00:03:31 28960kN
>>>1...Bd7 2.Rd3 e5 3.Rf3 Bf6 4.Bxb7 Rab8 5.Bd5 Bg4 6.Rg3 Kg8 7.Qg6
>>> ² (0.52) Depth: 17 00:11:40 90481kN
>>>1...Bd6 2.g3 Qh5 3.Rd3 Qe5 4.Rfd1 a5 5.h4 Ra6 6.Re3 Qc5
>>> ² (0.49) Depth: 17 00:16:15 122109kN
>>>
>>>(blass, tel-aviv 07.07.2001)
>>>
>>>It means that Junior7 at tournament time control on faster hardware can probably
>>>avoid Bd7.
>>
>>
>>Seems so.
>>
>>New position
>>r1br3k/pp2bpp1/4p3/8/4B2q/P1N5/1PQ2PPP/3R1RK1 b - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Junior 7:
>>
>>1...e5 2.Rxd8+ Bxd8
>> = (0.12) Depth: 3 00:00:00
>>1...Bd6 2.h3
>> = (-0.24) Depth: 3 00:00:00
>>1...Bd6 2.g3 Qh5 3.Rfe1 Qh3
>> = (-0.02) Depth: 6 00:00:00 15kN
>>1...Bd6 2.g3
>> ² (0.28) Depth: 9 00:00:00 111kN
>>1...Rxd1 2.Rxd1 a5 3.g3 Qh3 4.Bg2 Qh5 5.Rd4
>> ² (0.26) Depth: 9 00:00:00 234kN
>>1...Rxd1 2.Rxd1 f5 3.Rd3 Qf6 4.Rh3+ Kg8 5.Bf3 Qd4 6.Ne2 Qd6
>> ² (0.51) Depth: 12 00:00:01 1369kN
>>1...Bd6 2.g3 Qh5 3.Rd3 a5 4.Qd1 Qxd1 5.Rfxd1 Ra6 6.Rd4
>> = (0.19) Depth: 12 00:00:04 3413kN
>>1...Bd6 2.g3
>> ² (0.49) Depth: 15 00:00:33 24311kN
>>1...Bd7 2.Bxb7 Rab8 3.Be4 g6 4.g3 Qh3 5.Bg2 Qh5 6.Rfe1
>> ² (0.34) Depth: 15 00:00:39 28943kN
>>1...Bd7 2.Rd3 e5 3.Rf3 Bf6 4.Bxb7 Rab8 5.Bd5 Bg4 6.Rg3 Kg8 7.Qg6
>> ² (0.52) Depth: 17 00:02:07 90466kN
>
>Missing line;
>1...Bd6 2.g3 Qh5 3.Rd3 Qe5 4.Rfd1 a5 5.h4 Ra6 6.Re3 Qc5
> ² (0.49) Depth: 17 00:02:52 122065kN
>
>>(Bird, Scarb 07.07.2001)
>>
>>
>>>Note that Deep Junior could not see at depth 17 that Bd6 is 0.03 pawns better
>>>than Bd7 based on the pgn that was posted so it seems that depth 17 of Junior7
>>>is better than depth 17 of Deep Junior.
>>
>>In this position.
>>
>>Sarah.
Thanks Sarah, thanks Uri!
I wondering me. I think that Bd7 is a losing move.
Here my analysis with Junior 6a on P600 with 64MB:
Deep Shredder - Deep Junior 7/2x1Ghz
r1br3k/pp2bpp1/4p3/8/4B2q/P1N5/1PQ2PPP/3R1RK1 b - - 0 1
Analysis by Junior 6.0:
18...Dxe4 19.Txd8+ Lxd8 20.Dxe4 Lc7
+- (5.84) Tiefe: 3 00:00:00
18...Ld6 19.g3 Dg5 20.Tfe1 e5
= (-0.12) Tiefe: 6 00:00:00 14kN
18...Ld6 19.g3 Dg5 20.Tfe1 e5
= (-0.12) Tiefe: 6 00:00:00 14kN
18...Ld6 19.g3 Dg5 20.Tfe1 e5
= (-0.12) Tiefe: 6 00:00:00 14kN
18...Ld6 19.g3 Dg5 20.Tfe1 e5
= (-0.12) Tiefe: 6 00:00:00 14kN
18...Ld6 19.g3 Dg5 20.Tfe1 e5
= (-0.12) Tiefe: 6 00:00:00 14kN
18...Ld6 19.g3 Dh5 20.h4 Tb8 21.Tfe1 Dc5
= (0.04) Tiefe: 9 00:00:00 187kN
18...Ld6 19.g3 Dh5 20.Td4 e5 21.Td3 a5 22.Tfd1 Ta6 23.Td5
= (0.13) Tiefe: 12 00:00:05 2921kN
18...Ld6 19.g3 Dg5 20.Dd2 De5 21.De2 Td7 22.Dg4 Kg8 23.Tfe1
= (0.24) Tiefe: 14 00:00:30 16003kN
18...Ld6 19.g3 Dg5 20.Dd2 De5 21.h4 Dc5 22.Tfe1 a5 23.Dg5 Td7 24.Dxc5 Lxc5
= (0.20) Tiefe: 15 00:01:45 54436kN
18...Ld6 19.g3 Dh5 20.Td2 Dc5 21.Tfd1 a5 22.Sb5 Dxb5 23.Txd6 Txd6 24.Txd6 e5
² (0.30) Tiefe: 16 00:03:39 109039kN
18...a6 19.Txd8+ Lxd8 20.Td1 Lb6 21.Sa4 La7 22.g3 De7 23.Dd3
² (0.27) Tiefe: 16 00:05:12 157835kN
18...a6 19.g3 Df6 20.Txd8+ Lxd8 21.Td1
² (0.36) Tiefe: 17 00:07:15 218824kN
18...Ld6 19.g3 Dh5 20.Td2 Dc5 21.Tfd1 a5 22.Sb5 Dxb5 23.Dc7 Td7 24.Txd6 Df1+
25.Kxf1 Txc7
² (0.32) Tiefe: 17 00:09:11 272000kN
(Nemeth, Stuttgart 07.07.2001)
Best Regards,
Eduard
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