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Subject: Re: Taking a stand and a poll

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 15:41:55 07/07/01

Go up one level in this thread


On July 07, 2001 at 17:01:55, Otello Gnaramori wrote:

>On July 07, 2001 at 09:53:16, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On July 07, 2001 at 00:59:41, Jay Rinde wrote:
>>
>>>On July 06, 2001 at 23:38:06, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 06, 2001 at 10:47:13, Jonas Cohonas wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 06, 2001 at 09:08:17, James T. Walker wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>It seems that some people continually come up with reasons why computers are not
>>>>>>GM strength.  But if you look at the whole picture it's hard to deny.  I am
>>>>>>constantly reading here that "a single game means nothing";"A tournament like in
>>>>>>Argentina means nothing";"Playing a GM who is not familiar with computers means
>>>>>>nothing";"Beating low rated GMs(2500) means nothing";"The GM did not play
>>>>>>'anti-computer chess'" etc. etc. etc.  What do all these things put together
>>>>>>mean?  Last year I think it was some Spanish IM's that allowed a computer in
>>>>>>their tournament and all were embarrased.  Now it's Argentina and the same
>>>>>>result.  Now a computer has to beat a 2600 GM to prove it's GM strength although
>>>>>>there are many 2500 level GMs who could not do this.  Why are people constantly
>>>>>>trying to put artificial requirements on computers that are not required of
>>>>>>humans?  I believe one thing is already proven.  If humans play computers just
>>>>>>like any other human then computers are definitely at GM strength right now.
>>>>>>Also if you want to set up the computer for a fall, it can be done if you have
>>>>>>enough control over the conditions.  Some people want computers to be "bullet
>>>>>>proof" before they will declare computers GM level.  Just another requirement
>>>>>>that humans are not subjected to.  Some point at specific computer weaknesses
>>>>>>and say "see that, it can't be a GM if it does that".  Rebel took on some GMs in
>>>>>>the GM Challenge and played them fairly even.  Can an IM do that?  If he can he
>>>>>>will soon be a GM.  The only difference is a human has the opportunity to play
>>>>>>in FIDE tournaments and qualify for the title but computers do not.  This is
>>>>>>done in tournaments and not matches where one prepares specifically for the
>>>>>>opponent.  So that's where I stand.  Given a fair chance for the title I believe
>>>>>>there are several programs that could achieve the GM title.  Of course it's only
>>>>>>my opinion and it means nothing except that I've finally taken a stand.  I've
>>>>>>walked into the "Computers can be GMs" camp (if given the opportunity).
>>>>>>Jim
>>>>>
>>>>>I second all of the above, well put Jim!
>>>>>
>>>>>Poll results so far, from my site:
>>>>>
>>>>>Are computers GM strength ? [126 votes total]
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes(88)         70%
>>>>>No(26)          21%
>>>>>Don't know(12)  10%
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.geocities.com/vainot/BetaChess.html
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards
>>>>>Jonas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I guess that solves that.  :)
>>>>
>>>>BTW, another "poll" taken almost 600 years ago proved that the world was
>>>>flat, too.  If you are into that kind of "proof".
>>>>
>>>>:)
>>>
>>>The world isn't flat?
>>
>>
>>Must be.  Before Columbus set sail way back, polls said it was flat.  No need
>>to try to sail around the world when you know it is flat.
>
>Instead of eluding the very well put point of James , why don't you try to reply
>to him.
>


I _did_ reply to his point.  Polls mean nothing except what popular opinion
says.  Nothing to do with whether something is a fact or not, just an
opinion.  Scientists don't go around taking polls to determine if a quark has
mass, they do the experiments to prove or disprove it.

Polls are interesting to know what people _think_.  But that is _all_ they
reveal.

>Thanks.



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