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Subject: Re: Taking a stand and a poll

Author: odell hall

Date: 15:50:40 07/07/01

Go up one level in this thread


On July 07, 2001 at 18:41:55, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On July 07, 2001 at 17:01:55, Otello Gnaramori wrote:
>
>>On July 07, 2001 at 09:53:16, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On July 07, 2001 at 00:59:41, Jay Rinde wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 06, 2001 at 23:38:06, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 06, 2001 at 10:47:13, Jonas Cohonas wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On July 06, 2001 at 09:08:17, James T. Walker wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It seems that some people continually come up with reasons why computers are not
>>>>>>>GM strength.  But if you look at the whole picture it's hard to deny.  I am
>>>>>>>constantly reading here that "a single game means nothing";"A tournament like in
>>>>>>>Argentina means nothing";"Playing a GM who is not familiar with computers means
>>>>>>>nothing";"Beating low rated GMs(2500) means nothing";"The GM did not play
>>>>>>>'anti-computer chess'" etc. etc. etc.  What do all these things put together
>>>>>>>mean?  Last year I think it was some Spanish IM's that allowed a computer in
>>>>>>>their tournament and all were embarrased.  Now it's Argentina and the same
>>>>>>>result.  Now a computer has to beat a 2600 GM to prove it's GM strength although
>>>>>>>there are many 2500 level GMs who could not do this.  Why are people constantly
>>>>>>>trying to put artificial requirements on computers that are not required of
>>>>>>>humans?  I believe one thing is already proven.  If humans play computers just
>>>>>>>like any other human then computers are definitely at GM strength right now.
>>>>>>>Also if you want to set up the computer for a fall, it can be done if you have
>>>>>>>enough control over the conditions.  Some people want computers to be "bullet
>>>>>>>proof" before they will declare computers GM level.  Just another requirement
>>>>>>>that humans are not subjected to.  Some point at specific computer weaknesses
>>>>>>>and say "see that, it can't be a GM if it does that".  Rebel took on some GMs in
>>>>>>>the GM Challenge and played them fairly even.  Can an IM do that?  If he can he
>>>>>>>will soon be a GM.  The only difference is a human has the opportunity to play
>>>>>>>in FIDE tournaments and qualify for the title but computers do not.  This is
>>>>>>>done in tournaments and not matches where one prepares specifically for the
>>>>>>>opponent.  So that's where I stand.  Given a fair chance for the title I believe
>>>>>>>there are several programs that could achieve the GM title.  Of course it's only
>>>>>>>my opinion and it means nothing except that I've finally taken a stand.  I've
>>>>>>>walked into the "Computers can be GMs" camp (if given the opportunity).
>>>>>>>Jim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I second all of the above, well put Jim!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Poll results so far, from my site:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Are computers GM strength ? [126 votes total]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes(88)         70%
>>>>>>No(26)          21%
>>>>>>Don't know(12)  10%
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.geocities.com/vainot/BetaChess.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Regards
>>>>>>Jonas
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I guess that solves that.  :)
>>>>>
>>>>>BTW, another "poll" taken almost 600 years ago proved that the world was
>>>>>flat, too.  If you are into that kind of "proof".
>>>>>
>>>>>:)
>>>>
>>>>The world isn't flat?
>>>
>>>
>>>Must be.  Before Columbus set sail way back, polls said it was flat.  No need
>>>to try to sail around the world when you know it is flat.
>>
>>Instead of eluding the very well put point of James , why don't you try to reply
>>to him.
>>
>
>
>I _did_ reply to his point.  Polls mean nothing except what popular opinion
>says.  Nothing to do with whether something is a fact or not, just an
>opinion.  Scientists don't go around taking polls to determine if a quark has
>mass, they do the experiments to prove or disprove it.
>
>Polls are interesting to know what people _think_.  But that is _all_ they
>reveal.
>
>>Thanks.



 Sorry Bob

 But the experiments have been done, over, and over, with Two 2700+
performances, the problem is that you and others are ignoring the results.



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