Author: Uri Blass
Date: 21:50:23 07/07/01
Go up one level in this thread
On July 07, 2001 at 14:46:42, Eduard Nemeth wrote:
>On July 07, 2001 at 14:07:04, Chessfun wrote:
>
>>On July 07, 2001 at 14:02:22, Chessfun wrote:
>>
>>>On July 07, 2001 at 13:51:55, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 07, 2001 at 13:11:48, Eduard Nemeth wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 07, 2001 at 09:44:08, Martin Müller wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It is quite sad to see a famous program as DJ7 to loose that _way_. Not the loss
>>>>>>is important. But how it looses. The evalutaion differed up to 3 or more pawns
>>>>>>against several reputated programs. It makes me think that the evaluation of the
>>>>>>program is not quite correct. Just see that:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>{\rtf1\ansi\deff0{\fonttbl{\f0\froman FigurineCB AriesSP;}{\f1\fnil
>>>>>>DiagramTTFritz;}}{\info{\author
>>>>>>Müller,Martin}{\creatim\yr2001\mo7\dy7\hr15\min38}}\fs20 {\pard \ql {\b \fs24
>>>>>>(455) Deep Shredder,G - Deep Junior 7 [E48]\par}{\plain \fs20 Level=Blitz:60'.
>>>>>>Z\'FCrich, 07.07.2001\par}}{\qj {\b {\plain \fs20 716MB, j7book.ctg. LINKS
>>>>>> }1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e3 c5 5.Bd3 Nc6 6.Nge2 cxd4 7.exd4 d5 8.cxd5 Nxd5
>>>>>>9.0\'960 0\'960 10.Nxd5 Qxd5 11.a3 Be7 12.Be3 Rd8 13.Nc3 Qd7 {\plain \fs20
>>>>>>0.10/16 2:34 }14.Qc2 Nxd4 {\plain \fs20 0.33/18 1:47 }15.Bxh7+ Kh8 {\plain
>>>>>>\fs20 0.37/19 1:58 }16.Bxd4 Qxd4 {\plain \fs20 0.48/17 51 }17.Rad1 Qh4
>>>>>>{\plain \fs20 0.43/17 2:10 }18.Be4 Bd7 {\plain \fs20 0.52/17 2:16 }19.Rd3
>>>>>>e5 {\plain \fs20 0.00/17 5 }20.Bxb7 Rab8 {\plain \fs20 0.36/15 49 }21.Be4
>>>>>>g6 {\plain \fs20 0.39/16 1:25 }22.b4 Be6 {\plain \fs20 0.44/16 2:00
>>>>>>}23.Nd5 Bd6 {\plain \fs20 0.52/14 1:08 }24.Rfd1 Rdc8 {\plain \fs20 0.57/16
>>>>>>2:34 }25.Qe2 Kg7 {\plain \fs20 0.72/16 1:50 }26.g3 Qh8 {\plain \fs20
>>>>>>0.87/16 40 }27.Qe3 Bg4 {\plain \fs20 1.08/16 3:24 }28.Re1 Bh3 {\plain \fs20
>>>>>> 1.24/17 1:39 }29.Qxa7 Qf8 {\plain \fs20 1.30/17 1:52 }30.Qe3 Rd8 {\plain
>>>>>>\fs20 1.29/16 1:55 }31.Red1 Qe8 {\plain \fs20 1.30/16 1:30 }32.Bf3 Qe6
>>>>>>{\plain \fs20 1.40/16 55 }33.Nc3 Bc7 {\plain \fs20 1.11/16 48 }34.Rxd8
>>>>>>Bxd8 {\plain \fs20 0.00/18 5 }35.Nd5 Qf5 {\plain \fs20 1.37/18 2:36 }36.a4
>>>>>>Bg5 {\plain \fs20 1.42/17 2:34 }37.Qe2 Rc8 {\plain \fs20 1.50/17 1:01
>>>>>>}38.a5 Rc2 {\plain \fs20 1.98/18 5 }39.Ne3 Bxe3 {\plain \fs20 0.00/19 5
>>>>>>}40.Qxe3 Ra2 {\plain \fs20 0.00/18 5 }41.Bd5 Ra4 {\plain \fs20 0.00/18 5
>>>>>>}42.Qc3 Qh5 {\plain \fs20 2.07/16 10 }43.Re1 Qf5 {\plain \fs20 0.00/18 6
>>>>>>}44.Bb3 Ra3 {\plain \fs20 2.27/17 41 }45.Qb2 Qf3 {\plain \fs20 2.40/18 3:06
>>>>>> }46.Qxe5+ Qf6 {\plain \fs20 #1/20 5 }47.Qxf6+ Kxf6 {\plain \fs20 #1/21 6
>>>>>>}48.Bd5 Bd7 {\plain \fs20 2.48/21 5 }49.f4 Bb5 {\plain \fs20 2.32/17 30
>>>>>>}50.Rc1 Ke7 {\plain \fs20 2.68/18 26 }51.Kf2 Ra4 {\plain \fs20 2.37/17 43
>>>>>>}52.Re1+ Kf6 {\plain \fs20 2.37/18 44 }53.Rb1 Ke7 {\plain \fs20 0.00/21 5
>>>>>>}54.Ke3 f6 {\plain \fs20 2.69/18 1:27 }55.Kd4 Kd6 {\plain \fs20 2.80/21 5
>>>>>>}56.Bf7 g5 {\plain \fs20 2.62/17 33 }57.h4 gxh4 {\plain \fs20 2.62/16 29
>>>>>>}58.gxh4 Ra3 {\plain \fs20 0.00/21 5 }59.Bb3 Bd7 {\plain \fs20 0.00/21 5
>>>>>>}60.h5 Bf5 {\plain \fs20 3.19/21 5 }61.Rb2 Kc7 {\plain \fs20 0.00/20 5
>>>>>>}62.h6 Kb8 {\plain \fs20 3.54/18 1:00 }63.Bd5 Kc7 {\plain \fs20 0.00/19 5
>>>>>>}64.Rb3 Ra1 {\plain \fs20 0.00/21 5 }65.Rc3+ Kb8{\plain \fs20 4.40/18 3 }
>>>>>>1\'960}\par \par}\par}
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Deep Shredder,G - Deep Junior 7 [E48]
>>>>>>Level=Blitz:60'. Zürich, 07.07.2001
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 716MB, j7book.ctg. LINKS
>>>>>> 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e3 c5 5.Bd3 Nc6 6.Nge2 cxd4 7.exd4 d5 8.cxd5 Nxd5
>>>>>>9.0-0 0-0 10.Nxd5 Qxd5 11.a3 Be7 12.Be3 Rd8 13.Nc3 Qd7 0.10/16 2:34 14.Qc2
>>>>>>Nxd4 0.33/18 1:47 15.Bxh7+ Kh8 0.37/19 1:58 16.Bxd4 Qxd4 0.48/17 51
>>>>>>17.Rad1 Qh4 0.43/17 2:10 18.Be4 Bd7 0.52/17 2:16 19.Rd3 e5 0.00/17 5
>>>>>>20.Bxb7 Rab8 0.36/15 49 21.Be4 g6 0.39/16 1:25 22.b4 Be6 0.44/16 2:00
>>>>>>23.Nd5 Bd6 0.52/14 1:08 24.Rfd1 Rdc8 0.57/16 2:34 25.Qe2 Kg7 0.72/16
>>>>>>1:50 26.g3 Qh8 0.87/16 40 27.Qe3 Bg4 1.08/16 3:24 28.Re1 Bh3 1.24/17
>>>>>>1:39 29.Qxa7 Qf8 1.30/17 1:52 30.Qe3 Rd8 1.29/16 1:55 31.Red1 Qe8
>>>>>>1.30/16 1:30 32.Bf3 Qe6 1.40/16 55 33.Nc3 Bc7 1.11/16 48 34.Rxd8 Bxd8
>>>>>>0.00/18 5 35.Nd5 Qf5 1.37/18 2:36 36.a4 Bg5 1.42/17 2:34 37.Qe2 Rc8
>>>>>>1.50/17 1:01 38.a5 Rc2 1.98/18 5 39.Ne3 Bxe3 0.00/19 5 40.Qxe3 Ra2
>>>>>>0.00/18 5 41.Bd5 Ra4 0.00/18 5 42.Qc3 Qh5 2.07/16 10 43.Re1 Qf5 0.00/18
>>>>>> 6 44.Bb3 Ra3 2.27/17 41 45.Qb2 Qf3 2.40/18 3:06 46.Qxe5+ Qf6 #1/20 5
>>>>>>47.Qxf6+ Kxf6 #1/21 6 48.Bd5 Bd7 2.48/21 5 49.f4 Bb5 2.32/17 30 50.Rc1
>>>>>>Ke7 2.68/18 26 51.Kf2 Ra4 2.37/17 43 52.Re1+ Kf6 2.37/18 44 53.Rb1 Ke7
>>>>>>0.00/21 5 54.Ke3 f6 2.69/18 1:27 55.Kd4 Kd6 2.80/21 5 56.Bf7 g5 2.62/17
>>>>>> 33 57.h4 gxh4 2.62/16 29 58.gxh4 Ra3 0.00/21 5 59.Bb3 Bd7 0.00/21 5
>>>>>>60.h5 Bf5 3.19/21 5 61.Rb2 Kc7 0.00/20 5 62.h6 Kb8 3.54/18 1:00 63.Bd5
>>>>>>Kc7 0.00/19 5 64.Rb3 Ra1 0.00/21 5 65.Rc3+ Kb8 4.40/18 3 1-0
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Century 3 viz Deep Junior 7
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e3 c5 5.Bd3 Nc6 6.Ng-e2 cxd4 7.exd4 d5 8.cxd5 Nxd5
>>>>>>9.O-O O-O 10.Nxd5 Qxd5 11.a3 Be7 12.Be3 Rd8 13.Nc3 Qd7 14.Qc2 Nxd4 15.Bxh7+ Kh8
>>>>>>16.Bxd4 Qxd4 17.Ra-d1 Qh4 18.Be4 Bd7 19.Rd3 e5 20.Bxb7 Ra-b8 21.Be4 g6 22.b4 Be6
>>>>>>23.Nd5 Bd6 24.Rf-d1 Rd-c8 25.Qe2 Kg7 26.g3 Qh8 27.Qe3 Bg4 28.Re1 Bh3 29.Qxa7 Qf8
>>>>>>30.Qe3 Rc-d8 31.Re-d1 Qe8 32.Bf3 Qe6 33.Nc3 Bc7 34.Rd3xd8 Bxd8 35.Nd5 Qf5 36.a4
>>>>>>Bg5 37.Qe2 Rc8 38.a5 Rc2 39.Ne3 Bxe3 40.Qxe3 Ra2 41.Bd5 Ra4 42.Qc3 Qh5 43.Re1
>>>>>>Qf5 44.Bb3 Ra3 45.Qb2 Qf3 46.Qxe5+ Qf6 47.Qxf6+ Kxf6 48.Bd5 Bd7 49.f4 Bb5 50.Rc1
>>>>>>Ke7 51.Kf2 Ra4 52.Re1+ Kf6 53.Rb1 Ke7 54.Ke3 f6 55.Kd4 Kd6 56.Bf7 g5 57.h4 gxh4
>>>>>>58.gxh4 Ra3 59.Bb3 Bd7 60.h5 Bf5 61.Rb2 Kc7 62.h6 Kb8 63.Bd5 Kc7 64.Rb3 Ra1
>>>>>>65.Rc3+ Kb8 66.Rc6 Resigns
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Century 3 on a mûch slower 1 processor computer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>DJ7 does not see the problems it seems. What is wrong with DJ7?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Regards
>>>>>>Martin
>>>>>
>>>>>Hello all!
>>>>>
>>>>>(I play too by this tournament with Nimzo 8x)
>>>>>
>>>>>I cannot some moves from Dj7 understand!
>>>>>
>>>>>In first game against Century x, was the theoretical move 12.e4 an "bad move".
>>>>>Stronger for withe is 12.Ne4! After 12.e4 e5! have black a better chance!
>>>>>
>>>>>In game 2 I can with all my programs move 18...Bd7? not find! It was a bad move
>>>>>too! Better was 18...f5 or Bd6, or not?
>>>>>
>>>>>Have somebody Dj7 and can post a analysis by Dj7 in this position:
>>>>>
>>>>>[D]r1br3k/pp2bpp1/4p3/8/4B2q/P1N5/1PQ2PPP/3R1RK1 b - - 0 18
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>Eduard
>>>>
>>>>Here is some analysis of Junior7 on a slow p200(I told it time control of 10
>>>>hours/40 moves)
>>>>
>>>>blass,u - Junior 7
>>>>r1br3k/pp2bpp1/4p3/8/4B2q/P1N5/1PQ2PPP/3R1RK1 b - - 0 1
>>>>
>>>>Analysis by Junior 7:
>>>>
>>>>1...Bd6 2.h3
>>>> = (-0.24) Depth: 3 00:00:00
>>>>1...Bd6 2.h3
>>>> = (-0.24) Depth: 3 00:00:00
>>>>1...Bd6 2.g3 Qh5 3.Rfe1 Qh3
>>>> = (-0.02) Depth: 6 00:00:00 14kN
>>>>1...Bd6 2.g3
>>>> ² (0.28) Depth: 9 00:00:01 111kN
>>>>1...Rxd1 2.Rxd1 a5 3.g3 Qh3 4.Bg2 Qh5 5.Rd4
>>>> ² (0.26) Depth: 9 00:00:02 234kN
>>>>1...Rxd1 2.Rxd1 f5 3.Rd3 Qf6 4.Rh3+ Kg8 5.Bf3 Qd4 6.Ne2 Qd6
>>>> ² (0.51) Depth: 12 00:00:10 1369kN
>>>>1...Bd6 2.g3 Qh5 3.Rd3 a5 4.Qd1 Qxd1 5.Rfxd1 Ra6 6.Rd4
>>>> = (0.19) Depth: 12 00:00:24 3413kN
>>>>1...Bd6 2.g3
>>>> ² (0.49) Depth: 15 00:02:57 24328kN
>>>>1...Bd7 2.Bxb7 Rab8 3.Be4 g6 4.g3 Qh3 5.Bg2 Qh5 6.Rfe1
>>>> ² (0.34) Depth: 15 00:03:31 28960kN
>>>>1...Bd7 2.Rd3 e5 3.Rf3 Bf6 4.Bxb7 Rab8 5.Bd5 Bg4 6.Rg3 Kg8 7.Qg6
>>>> ² (0.52) Depth: 17 00:11:40 90481kN
>>>>1...Bd6 2.g3 Qh5 3.Rd3 Qe5 4.Rfd1 a5 5.h4 Ra6 6.Re3 Qc5
>>>> ² (0.49) Depth: 17 00:16:15 122109kN
>>>>
>>>>(blass, tel-aviv 07.07.2001)
>>>>
>>>>It means that Junior7 at tournament time control on faster hardware can probably
>>>>avoid Bd7.
>>>
>>>
>>>Seems so.
>>>
>>>New position
>>>r1br3k/pp2bpp1/4p3/8/4B2q/P1N5/1PQ2PPP/3R1RK1 b - - 0 1
>>>
>>>Analysis by Junior 7:
>>>
>>>1...e5 2.Rxd8+ Bxd8
>>> = (0.12) Depth: 3 00:00:00
>>>1...Bd6 2.h3
>>> = (-0.24) Depth: 3 00:00:00
>>>1...Bd6 2.g3 Qh5 3.Rfe1 Qh3
>>> = (-0.02) Depth: 6 00:00:00 15kN
>>>1...Bd6 2.g3
>>> ² (0.28) Depth: 9 00:00:00 111kN
>>>1...Rxd1 2.Rxd1 a5 3.g3 Qh3 4.Bg2 Qh5 5.Rd4
>>> ² (0.26) Depth: 9 00:00:00 234kN
>>>1...Rxd1 2.Rxd1 f5 3.Rd3 Qf6 4.Rh3+ Kg8 5.Bf3 Qd4 6.Ne2 Qd6
>>> ² (0.51) Depth: 12 00:00:01 1369kN
>>>1...Bd6 2.g3 Qh5 3.Rd3 a5 4.Qd1 Qxd1 5.Rfxd1 Ra6 6.Rd4
>>> = (0.19) Depth: 12 00:00:04 3413kN
>>>1...Bd6 2.g3
>>> ² (0.49) Depth: 15 00:00:33 24311kN
>>>1...Bd7 2.Bxb7 Rab8 3.Be4 g6 4.g3 Qh3 5.Bg2 Qh5 6.Rfe1
>>> ² (0.34) Depth: 15 00:00:39 28943kN
>>>1...Bd7 2.Rd3 e5 3.Rf3 Bf6 4.Bxb7 Rab8 5.Bd5 Bg4 6.Rg3 Kg8 7.Qg6
>>> ² (0.52) Depth: 17 00:02:07 90466kN
>>
>>Missing line;
>>1...Bd6 2.g3 Qh5 3.Rd3 Qe5 4.Rfd1 a5 5.h4 Ra6 6.Re3 Qc5
>> ² (0.49) Depth: 17 00:02:52 122065kN
>>
>>>(Bird, Scarb 07.07.2001)
>>>
>>>
>>>>Note that Deep Junior could not see at depth 17 that Bd6 is 0.03 pawns better
>>>>than Bd7 based on the pgn that was posted so it seems that depth 17 of Junior7
>>>>is better than depth 17 of Deep Junior.
>>>
>>>In this position.
>>>
>>>Sarah.
>
>Thanks Sarah, thanks Uri!
>
>I wondering me. I think that Bd7 is a losing move.
>
>Here my analysis with Junior 6a on P600 with 64MB:
>
>Deep Shredder - Deep Junior 7/2x1Ghz
>r1br3k/pp2bpp1/4p3/8/4B2q/P1N5/1PQ2PPP/3R1RK1 b - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Junior 6.0:
>
>18...Dxe4 19.Txd8+ Lxd8 20.Dxe4 Lc7
> +- (5.84) Tiefe: 3 00:00:00
>18...Ld6 19.g3 Dg5 20.Tfe1 e5
> = (-0.12) Tiefe: 6 00:00:00 14kN
>18...Ld6 19.g3 Dg5 20.Tfe1 e5
> = (-0.12) Tiefe: 6 00:00:00 14kN
>18...Ld6 19.g3 Dg5 20.Tfe1 e5
> = (-0.12) Tiefe: 6 00:00:00 14kN
>18...Ld6 19.g3 Dg5 20.Tfe1 e5
> = (-0.12) Tiefe: 6 00:00:00 14kN
>18...Ld6 19.g3 Dg5 20.Tfe1 e5
> = (-0.12) Tiefe: 6 00:00:00 14kN
>18...Ld6 19.g3 Dh5 20.h4 Tb8 21.Tfe1 Dc5
> = (0.04) Tiefe: 9 00:00:00 187kN
>18...Ld6 19.g3 Dh5 20.Td4 e5 21.Td3 a5 22.Tfd1 Ta6 23.Td5
> = (0.13) Tiefe: 12 00:00:05 2921kN
>18...Ld6 19.g3 Dg5 20.Dd2 De5 21.De2 Td7 22.Dg4 Kg8 23.Tfe1
> = (0.24) Tiefe: 14 00:00:30 16003kN
>18...Ld6 19.g3 Dg5 20.Dd2 De5 21.h4 Dc5 22.Tfe1 a5 23.Dg5 Td7 24.Dxc5 Lxc5
> = (0.20) Tiefe: 15 00:01:45 54436kN
>18...Ld6 19.g3 Dh5 20.Td2 Dc5 21.Tfd1 a5 22.Sb5 Dxb5 23.Txd6 Txd6 24.Txd6 e5
> ² (0.30) Tiefe: 16 00:03:39 109039kN
>18...a6 19.Txd8+ Lxd8 20.Td1 Lb6 21.Sa4 La7 22.g3 De7 23.Dd3
> ² (0.27) Tiefe: 16 00:05:12 157835kN
>18...a6 19.g3 Df6 20.Txd8+ Lxd8 21.Td1
> ² (0.36) Tiefe: 17 00:07:15 218824kN
>18...Ld6 19.g3 Dh5 20.Td2 Dc5 21.Tfd1 a5 22.Sb5 Dxb5 23.Dc7 Td7 24.Txd6 Df1+
>25.Kxf1 Txc7
> ² (0.32) Tiefe: 17 00:09:11 272000kN
>
>(Nemeth, Stuttgart 07.07.2001)
>
>Best Regards,
>Eduard
Here is another try with Junior7 at slower time control on p200(24 hours for 10
moves)
This time it wants to play 18...Bd7 after 4 hours inspite of the fact that the
score at depth 20 is even worse than the previous score (0.53 pawns for white
and not 0.52 for white).
It did not finish iteration 20 at this time but it calculates Qf4 and it means
that it rejected all the moves except Qf4,Qg4 Kg8 so it is not going to play Bd6
or f5.
It seems that Junior7 believes that there is a problem with these moves
and I will check what it is going to play after these moves later with better
hardware.
blass,u - Junior 7
r1br3k/pp2bpp1/4p3/8/4B2q/P1N5/1PQ2PPP/3R1RK1 b - - 0 1
Analysis by Junior 7:
1...e5 2.Rxd8+ Bxd8
= (0.12) Depth: 3 00:00:01
1...Bd6 2.h3
= (-0.24) Depth: 3 00:00:01
1...Bd6 2.g3 Qh5 3.Rfe1 Qh3
= (-0.02) Depth: 6 00:00:01 14kN
1...Bd6 2.g3
² (0.28) Depth: 9 00:00:02 111kN
1...Rxd1 2.Rxd1 a5 3.g3 Qh3 4.Bg2 Qh5 5.Rd4
² (0.26) Depth: 9 00:00:03 234kN
1...Rxd1 2.Rxd1 f5 3.Rd3 Qf6 4.Rh3+ Kg8 5.Bf3 Qd4 6.Ne2 Qd6
² (0.51) Depth: 12 00:00:11 1369kN
1...Bd6 2.g3 Qh5 3.Rd3 a5 4.Qd1 Qxd1 5.Rfxd1 Ra6 6.Rd4
= (0.19) Depth: 12 00:00:25 3413kN
1...Bd6 2.g3
² (0.49) Depth: 15 00:02:58 24330kN
1...Bd7 2.Bxb7 Rab8 3.Be4 g6 4.g3 Qh3 5.Bg2 Qh5 6.Rfe1
² (0.34) Depth: 15 00:03:31 28963kN
1...Bd7 2.Rd3 e5 3.Rfd1 Bg4 4.Rxd8+ Bxd8 5.Re1 Bb6 6.Bxb7 Re8 7.Bd5 f6 8.Bf7
² (0.46) Depth: 18 00:14:30 112119kN
1...Bd7 2.Rfe1 g6 3.Re3 Kg7 4.g3 Qg5 5.b4 Qh5 6.Qb2 Rac8 7.Bxb7
² (0.53) Depth: 20 01:36:56 724693kN
(blass, tel-aviv 08.07.2001)
Uri
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.