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Subject: Re: Interesting Position (Tactics and King Safety)

Author: Bas Hamstra

Date: 12:26:00 07/08/01

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Here is Tao's output:

Hash 8 Mb
PawnHash 4 Mb
Hashing 524288 positions
PHash 65536 records
Evaluation learning 0
Could not open Tao.bk for input
Ok[Load qqqq.epd]
Ok[analyze]
TargetTime set[4750]
 1. -87      0       290  e1g1 a5b4
 2  -87      0       368  e1g1 a5b4
 2. -87      0       715  e1g1 a5b4
 3  -88      0      1196  e1g1 a5b4 d3b3
 3  -79      0      2167  g3g4 f5h6 f3g5
 3. -79      0      2539  g3g4 f5h6 f3g5
 4  -69      0      6881  g3g4 f5h6 f3g5 g7g6
 4. -69      0      7927  g3g4 f5h6 f3g5 g7g6
 5 -113      0     22579  g3g4 f5h6 f3g5 g7g6 d3f3 a5b4
 5  -70      1     50303  b4b5 c6a7 g3g4 c8c1 b2c1 f5h6
 5. -70      1     52266  b4b5 c6a7 g3g4 c8c1 b2c1 f5h6
 6  -59      1     87189  b4b5 c6a7 g3g4 c8c1 b2c1 f5h6 f3g5
 6. -59      1     99395  b4b5 c6a7 g3g4 c8c1 b2c1 f5h6 f3g5
 7  -60      3    249696  b4b5 a5a4 b5c6 b6b2 c1b1 b2a3 d3a3 e7a3 c6b7
 7. -60      3    281129  b4b5 a5a4 b5c6 b6b2 c1b1 b2a3 d3a3 e7a3 c6b7
 8  -57      8    721830  b4b5 c6a7 c1c8 f8c8 g3g4 f5h6 f3g5 g7g6
 8. -57      9    792203  b4b5 c6a7 c1c8 f8c8 g3g4 f5h6 f3g5 g7g6
 9  -66     20   1780125  b4b5 c6a7 a3a4 c8c1 b2c1 f8c8 e1g1 c8c4 d3d1
                          e7b4
 9. -66     22   2022178  b4b5 c6a7 a3a4 c8c1 b2c1 f8c8 e1g1 c8c4 d3d1
    	                  e7b4
10  -59     43   4231308  b4b5 c6a7 a3a4 e7b4 f3d2 c8c1 b2c1 a7c8 e1g1
    	                  c8e7 c1b2 f8c8
10. -59     48   4667668  b4b5 c6a7 a3a4 e7b4 f3d2 c8c1 b2c1 a7c8 e1g1
  	                  c8e7 c1b2 f8c8
11  -81     84   8311595  b4b5 c6a7 a3a4 e7b4 b2c3 b4c3 c1c3 c8c3 e1c3
	                  f5g3 h1g1 g3h5 g1g4
11  -38    217  21846803  g3g4 a5b4 g4f5 b4a3 b2c3 c6b4 d3d2 e6f5 e1g1
                          g8h8 f3g5
11. -38    222  22330210  g3g4 a5b4 g4f5 b4a3 b2c3 c6b4 d3d2 e6f5 e1g1
           g8h8 f3g5
12  -41    364  37064696  g3g4 a5b4 g4f5 b4a3 b2c3 c6b4 d3d2 e6f5 e1g1
                          g8h8 f3g5 b4c6
12. -41    384  39268573  g3g4 a5b4 g4f5 b4a3 b2c3 c6b4 d3d2 e6f5 e1g1
  		          g8h8 f3g5 b4c6
13  -13   1404 153508743  g3g4 e7b4 a3b4 c6b4 d3b1 f5e3 b2c3 e3g4 f3g5
 	      	          f7f5 e5f6 g4f6 e1g1 g8h8 c3b4 a5b4
13. -13   1448 157957945  g3g4 e7b4 a3b4 c6b4 d3b1 f5e3 b2c3 e3g4 f3g5
		          f7f5 e5f6 g4f6 e1g1 g8h8 c3b4 a5b4
14  -12   2736 300621807  g3g4 e7b4 a3b4 c6b4 d3d2 c8c1 b2c1 f5e3 g4g5
 			  f8c8 e1f2 e3c4 d2d1 b6a6 c1d2 b4d3 f2g2 c4d2
			  d1d2

Ok[quit]

No big scores after g4! Maybe we should consult Comet :-)


Bas.



On July 07, 2001 at 15:51:46, Peter McKenzie wrote:

>[D]2r2rk1/1p2bppp/1qn1p3/p2pPn2/1P1P1P1P/P2Q1NP1/1B2N3/2R1K2R w K -
>
>This position was reached in a game on ICC, with LambChop black and a human
>white.  LambChop just played a5, which allows the opponent to attack on the king
>side with g4 Nh6 Ng5 g6 h5 and white is winning I think.
>
>I was a little surprised that it takes Chop 11ply to play g4 (initially it
>preferred b5), and even after a 13ply search the score is still slightly
>negative (0.2 in black's favour).
>
>So I'm wondering how other programs do here?
>
>I think that black has some chances to muddy the waters with sacrifices on b4 at
>various points.  While I don't think these are any good, they do have some merit
>and could push the horizon out a bit.
>
>Any suggestions of what sort of evaluation terms or extensions might help here
>would be welcome :-)
>
>cheers,
>Peter
>
>p.s. Now I see that there is another possible defence: g4 axb4 gxf5 bxa3, not
>sure if this works but it's interesting.  The position after g4:
>
>[D]2r2rk1/1p2bppp/1qn1p3/p2pPn2/1P1P1PPP/P2Q1N2/1B2N3/2R1K2R b K -
>
>In this position, Chop needs 12ply to switch to axb4, score is +0.44.  I
>wouldn't treat that score as gospel, but I think axb4 is a much better try than
>Nh6.



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