Author: Uri Blass
Date: 10:31:59 07/20/01
Go up one level in this thread
On July 20, 2001 at 12:24:06, Miguel A. Ballicora wrote: >On July 20, 2001 at 11:39:06, Adam Oellermann wrote: > >> >>>Do you mean the Fine #70 endgame position? >>>Here is it: >>> >>[D]8/k7/3p4/p2P1p2/P2P1P2/8/8/K7 w - - 0 1 >>> >>>solution starts with 1.Kb1 Kb7 2.Kc1 >>> >>>Rafael B. Andrist >> >>Yup, that's the one. Any info on what depth is required to solve it, and how >>long it might take? > >Anything from 18 to 26 plies is ok (B. Hyatt posted this) . It varies according >to the program, and it should take few seconds, may be less than a second in >most computers to go for Kb1. In a PIII 700mhz 16 Mb Hash table mine takes 0.2 s >to reach ply 21 which is the first one that chooses Kb1. Later, I had a big >increase in score at ply 26. >My program has almost no knowledge relevant to this endgame (just centralization >of the king and material since there are no passed pawns) so I guess it would be >interesting for you to compare. > >I posted long time ago (January this year I think) some experiments I did >with this position and some combinations of hashtable schemes and evaluation >functions. I believe that you might find it useful, sometimes you might find >the solution is less plies but in longer time! > >This is the output (Gaviota 0.2.2) > > Ply seconds score PV > 18: 0.1 +0.62 Ka1-b2 Ka7-b6 Kb2-c3 Kb6-c7 Kc3-c4 Kc7-b6 > Kc4-d3 Kb6-c7 Kd3-c3 Kc7-b7 Kc3-d2 Kb7-c8 > Kd2-c2 Kc8-d7 Kc2-b2 Kd7-c7 Kb2-b3 Kc7-b6 > 19 0.1 +0.62 Ka1-b2 Ka7-b8 Kb2-c3 Kb8-b7 Kc3-d2 > 19: 0.1 +0.62 Ka1-b2 Ka7-b8 Kb2-c3 Kb8-b7 Kc3-d2 > 20 0.1 +0.62 Ka1-b2 Ka7-a8 Kb2-c3 Ka8-b7 Kc3-d2 > 20: 0.1 +0.62 Ka1-b2 Ka7-a8 Kb2-c3 Ka8-b7 Kc3-d2 > 21 0.1 +0.62 Ka1-b2 Ka7-a8 Kb2-c3 Ka8-b7 Kc3-d2 Kb7-c8 > Kd2-c2 Kc8-b8 Kc2-d3 Kb8-c7 Kd3-e3 Kc7-d7 > Ke3-e2 Kd7-d8 Ke2-f3 Kd8-e7 Kf3-g3 Ke7-f6 > Kg3-h4 Kf6-g6 Kh4-g3 > 21 0.2 +0.68 Ka1-b1 Ka7-b7 Kb1-c1 Kb7-c7 Kc1-d1 Kc7-d7 > Kd1-c2 Kd7-e7 Kc2-d3 Ke7-f7 Kd3-c4 Kf7-g6 > Kc4-b5 Kg6-h5 Kb5-c6 Kh5-g4 Kc6xd6 Kg4xf4 > Kd6-c5 Kf4-e4 d5-d6 > 21: 0.2 +0.68 Ka1-b1 Ka7-b7 Kb1-c1 Kb7-c7 Kc1-d1 Kc7-d7 > Kd1-c2 Kd7-e7 Kc2-d3 Ke7-f7 Kd3-c4 Kf7-g6 > Kc4-b5 Kg6-h5 Kb5-c6 Kh5-g4 Kc6xd6 Kg4xf4 > Kd6-c5 Kf4-e4 d5-d6 > 22 0.2 +0.63 Ka1-b1 Ka7-b7 Kb1-c1 Kb7-c7 Kc1-d1 Kc7-d7 > Kd1-c2 Kd7-e7 Kc2-d3 Ke7-f7 Kd3-c4 Kf7-g6 > Kc4-b5 Kg6-h5 Kb5-c6 Kh5-g4 Kc6xd6 Kg4xf4 > Kd6-c5 Kf4-e4 d5-d6 f5-f4 > 22: 0.2 +0.63 Ka1-b1 Ka7-b7 Kb1-c1 Kb7-c7 Kc1-d1 Kc7-d7 > Kd1-c2 Kd7-e7 Kc2-d3 Ke7-f7 Kd3-c4 Kf7-g6 > Kc4-b5 Kg6-h5 Kb5-c6 Kh5-g4 Kc6xd6 Kg4xf4 > Kd6-c5 Kf4-e4 d5-d6 f5-f4 > 23 0.2 +0.74 Ka1-b1 Ka7-b7 Kb1-c1 Kb7-c7 Kc1-d1 Kc7-d7 > Kd1-c2 Kd7-e7 Kc2-d3 Ke7-f7 Kd3-c4 Kf7-g6 > Kc4-b5 Kg6-h5 Kb5-c6 Kh5-g4 Kc6xd6 Kg4xf4 > Kd6-c5 Kf4-e4 d5-d6 f5-f4 d6-d7 > 23: 0.2 +0.74 Ka1-b1 Ka7-b7 Kb1-c1 Kb7-c7 Kc1-d1 Kc7-d7 > Kd1-c2 Kd7-e7 Kc2-d3 Ke7-f7 Kd3-c4 Kf7-g6 > Kc4-b5 Kg6-h5 Kb5-c6 Kh5-g4 Kc6xd6 Kg4xf4 > Kd6-c5 Kf4-e4 d5-d6 f5-f4 d6-d7 > 24 1.2 :-) Ka1-b1 > 24 2.9 +0.73 Ka1-b1 Ka7-b7 Kb1-c1 Kb7-c7 Kc1-d1 Kc7-d7 > Kd1-c2 Kd7-c8 Kc2-d2 Kc8-d7 Kd2-c3 Kd7-c7 > Kc3-d3 Kc7-b7 Kd3-d2 Kb7-c8 Kd2-c2 Kc8-b8 > Kc2-b3 Kb8-c7 Kb3-c3 Kc7-b7 Kc3-d3 Kb7-c7 > 24: 2.9 +0.73 Ka1-b1 Ka7-b7 Kb1-c1 Kb7-c7 Kc1-d1 Kc7-d7 > Kd1-c2 Kd7-c8 Kc2-d2 Kc8-d7 Kd2-c3 Kd7-c7 > Kc3-d3 Kc7-b7 Kd3-d2 Kb7-c8 Kd2-c2 Kc8-b8 > Kc2-b3 Kb8-c7 Kb3-c3 Kc7-b7 Kc3-d3 Kb7-c7 > 25 2.9 :-) Ka1-b1 > 25 23.4 +0.73 Ka1-b1 Ka7-b7 Kb1-c1 Kb7-c7 Kc1-d1 Kc7-d7 > Kd1-c2 Kd7-c8 Kc2-d2 Kc8-d7 Kd2-c3 Kd7-c7 > Kc3-d3 Kc7-b7 Kd3-e3 Kb7-c8 Ke3-f3 Kc8-d7 > Kf3-e2 Kd7-d8 Ke2-d3 Kd8-c7 Kd3-c4 Kc7-b6 > Kc4-d3 > 25: 23.4 +0.73 Ka1-b1 Ka7-b7 Kb1-c1 Kb7-c7 Kc1-d1 Kc7-d7 > Kd1-c2 Kd7-c8 Kc2-d2 Kc8-d7 Kd2-c3 Kd7-c7 > Kc3-d3 Kc7-b7 Kd3-e3 Kb7-c8 Ke3-f3 Kc8-d7 > Kf3-e2 Kd7-d8 Ke2-d3 Kd8-c7 Kd3-c4 Kc7-b6 > Kc4-d3 > 26 23.4 :-) Ka1-b1 > 26 144.3 +1.40 Ka1-b1 Ka7-b7 Kb1-c1 Kb7-c7 Kc1-d1 Kc7-d7 > Kd1-c2 Kd7-c8 Kc2-d2 Kc8-d7 Kd2-c3 Kd7-c7 > Kc3-d3 Kc7-b7 Kd3-e3 Kb7-c8 Ke3-f3 Kc8-d7 > Kf3-g3 Kd7-e7 Kg3-h4 Ke7-f6 Kh4-h5 Kf6-e7 > Kh5-g6 Ke7-d7 Kg6xf5 > 26: 144.3 +1.40 Ka1-b1 Ka7-b7 Kb1-c1 Kb7-c7 Kc1-d1 Kc7-d7 > Kd1-c2 Kd7-c8 Kc2-d2 Kc8-d7 Kd2-c3 Kd7-c7 > >Regards, >Miguel For comparison here is the output of Junior7 on p200 It also has no problem to find Kb1 but it does not count in plies. New position 8/k7/3p4/p2P1p2/P2P1P2/8/8/K7 w - - 0 1 Analysis by Junior 7: 1.Kb2 Kb6 ² (0.44) Depth: 3 00:00:00 1.Kb2 Kb6 2.Kc3 ² (0.45) Depth: 6 00:00:00 1.Kb2 Kb6 2.Kc3 Kc7 3.Kc4 ² (0.51) Depth: 9 00:00:00 1.Kb2 Kb6 2.Kc3 Kc7 3.Kc4 Kb6 ² (0.62) Depth: 12 00:00:00 1.Kb2 Kb6 2.Kb3 Kc7 3.Kc3 Kb6 4.Kc4 ² (0.62) Depth: 15 00:00:00 2kN 1.Kb2 Kb6 2.Kb3 Kc7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Ka7 ² (0.62) Depth: 18 00:00:00 4kN 1.Kb2 Kb6 2.Kb3 Kc7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 ² (0.62) Depth: 21 00:00:00 6kN 1.Kb2 Kb6 2.Kb3 Kc7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 ² (0.62) Depth: 24 00:00:01 9kN 1.Kb2 Kb6 2.Kb3 Kc7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 ² (0.62) Depth: 27 00:00:01 14kN 1.Kb2 Kb6 2.Kb3 Kc7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 ² (0.62) Depth: 30 00:00:01 21kN 1.Kb2 Kb6 2.Kb3 Kc7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 ² (0.62) Depth: 33 00:00:01 30kN 1.Kb2 Kb6 2.Kb3 Kc7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 ² (0.62) Depth: 36 00:00:01 61kN 1.Kb2 Ka8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 ² (0.62) Depth: 39 00:00:02 105kN 1.Kb1 Kb7 2.Kc1 Kc7 3.Kd1 Kd8 4.Kc2 Ke7 5.Kd3 Kf6 6.Kc4 Kg6 7.Kb5 Kh5 8.Kxa5 Kg4 9.Kb5 Kxf4 10.Kc6 ± (0.71) Depth: 39 00:00:02 117kN 1.Kb1 Kb7 2.Kc1 Kc7 3.Kd1 Kd8 4.Kc2 Kc7 5.Kd3 ± (0.92) Depth: 42 00:00:02 142kN 1.Kb1! ± (1.22) Depth: 45 00:00:03 188kN 1.Kb1! +- (1.52) Depth: 48 00:00:04 284kN 1.Kb1! +- (1.82) Depth: 50 00:00:07 547kN, tb=2 (blass, tel-aviv 20.07.2001) Uri
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