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Subject: Re: Do commercial programmers resent Winboard+Yace/Crafty/Goliath...?

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 20:30:38 08/03/01

Go up one level in this thread


On August 03, 2001 at 21:10:12, Dann Corbit wrote:

>On August 03, 2001 at 17:28:24, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On August 03, 2001 at 16:48:47, Roy Eassa wrote:
>>
>>>Does the existence of such strong free programs eat into profits?  Might it
>>>signal the beginning of the end for commercial programs?  (I hasten to say, I
>>>keep buying 'em, especially now that they no longer cost USD$100+ apiece.)
>>
>>How many versions did they sell then, and who for **** sake can get
>>a winboard version to work except a few freaks who are like 0.001% of
>>the people big companies like chessmaster and CB sell to?
>
>My guess is that Winboard engines ENHANCE program sales.

This is something only someone a freak would write who has nothing
to do with marketing something. Making a program
listen to a protocol which no one in the world can get to work except
a few freaks is obviously not INCREASING sales.

It's so obvious that i'm amazed people ask questions about it.

I once made for a company a backup system that needed next
combination each day to backup: 'enter' 'escape' 'enter'.

Well, it was a disaster, no one except me could backup the database!

The combination was too tough!

Now you're talking about oldies (freaks hardly buy software) who
need to get winboard to work with a program?

Note that winboard is green by default, despite that i'm playing
chess a year or 22 now (started at 5), i never will get used playing
with something green!

If someone would ask me at my chessclub after winboard i'd say:
"how can you take this serious, a1 is green!!! hahahahaha"

He would laugh with me and never again take that program serious.

>We become enthralled by the strongest Winboard engines, and want more delightful

modify that in 'a few freaks that live at an inaccessible corner of
the internet called CCC'.

>and intricate moves to be made at our beck and call.
>
>I played with Winboard engines long before I bought any commercial software.

I was so sick about being a winboard engine that i created my own interface.

>The big difference between Winboard engines+Winboard and commercial systems is
>features of the commercial systems, ease of use and ease of installation (as
>Vincent pointed out).

>With SCID you can get a pretty nice free database also.  But the professional
>offerings like Chess Assistant are certainly more fully featured and easy to
>use.

SCID is a joke. i'm a programmer and not worlds most stupid user, but
i never got it to work under windows.

>I suspect that SCID will also sell a lot of chess database systems, rather than
>compete with them.  I have both SCID and commercial chess database, and I like
>them both.

>Winboard engines can be used to ENHANCE commercial systems, since they are able
>to operate the Winboard engines.

If you make your engine winboard you sure will not get commercial,
of course commercials can load winboard engines.

>I very much like the brave reverse direction that ChessMaster has made, in
>allowing ChessMaster to run as a Winboard engine!

Which means obviously that i'm not happy to create diep back into winboard.
i've got my own interface now and i've been a winboard engine.

Being a DOS interface sucked bigtime. Being winboard in the end sucked bigtime
for the progress of my program. I could get no testers, no book makers,
no one at all do something for me. I could never quickly improve my program
as i would had to place allt he pieces at the board first before i could
see what disaster move it made in a position x, now i just scroll a few
moves and there i see it.

I couldn't see my search lines and other loads of debug stuff, now i
all see it graphically which is cool.

My books in winboard time were in textmode made. Very slow to add bookmoves.

In 3 years time i only managed to create a handmade book of 6000 bookmoves,
and i never knew which move i had turned on or off. Like what happened
in WMCCC2000 against tiger was because of this. Diep played kings indian,
ONLY because i hadn't seen that somewhere in my huge textfile a '!'
was behind the move Nf6 at move 1. After that i was lost!

Being winboard sucked bigtime.

Winboard for me represents for me the middleages of DIEP.

Only students and nerds seriously create from their engine only
a winboard engine and don't care for the rest!

With your engine being only winboard you can say good bye to progress!

>If I just wanted to play chess on FICS, I would rather use Winboard to do it.
>If I wanted to use a chess engine, then certainly ChessMaster 8K would be a top
>choice for that arena as well.

>Similarly, I don't think that tools like GCC will ever hurt the compiler sales
>for the commercial vendors.  I have GCC, but also buy every compiler in sight if
>I think it can help me to do my job better.

Right as long as things are that amateuristic slow, then they won't
be a threat for commercial compiler builders.

Idem for winboard.

>Free stuff like that really has no downside, that I can see.

Free stuff doesn't enhance sales it gives you not a penny if you sell
your program as freeware.





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