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Subject: Re: Maastricht - my opinion (only german, sorry)

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 21:02:14 08/03/01

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On August 03, 2001 at 19:25:31, Eduard Nemeth wrote:

>On August 03, 2001 at 11:19:07, Ed Schröder wrote:
>
>>Received from David Levy.
>>
>>Ed
>>
>>===================================
>>
>>The following will shortly be posted on the ICCA site.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>Since announcing the above decision there have been some complaints from
>>programmers who had planned to enter with multi-processor machines. Different
>>views were expressed to me, including the suggestion that programmers be allowed
>>to enter both the single processor and multi-processor sections, and a
>>suggestion that we leave things as they were originally and have only one title
>>available no matter whether it is won on a single or multi-processor computer.
>> 
>>In a situation like this no matter what is decided there will be complaints.
>>That is the nature of such situations.
>> 
>>I have reflected on the various arguments made to me over the past couple of
>>days and on the wisdom or otherwise of making a further change in the rules, but
>>in the end I have decided that my original decision should stand, and this is
>>final. Although some of the multi-processor programmers will not be happy with
>>the decision I feel that it is the best one for a big majority of programmers.
>>And the multi-processor guys can still win a World Championship title.
>> 
>>So please, no more complaints. Get your programs into a good mood for the event.
>>And good luck to all of you in Maastricht.
>> 
>>I should emphasize again that my decision has been taken in the absence of the
>>Maastricht oirganising team so please do not blame any of them. Whatever fault
>>there is for this decision is mine.
>> 
>>David Levy
>>
>
>My opinion "now"( german ):
>
>Nachdem die ICCA erst vor wenigen Wochen auch Multiprozessor Systeme zugelassen
>hat (was für eine Micro-WM nicht üblich ist, bisher wurden nur Systeme mit nur
>"einem" Prozessor zugelassen), hatte das Team Rebel um Programmierer Ed Schröder
>seine Teilnahme an dieser WM zurückgenommen.
>
>Vor wenigen Tagen wendete sich aber das Blatt, als der ICCA Präsident in einer
>Mitteilung die Regeln neu definierte.
>
>So wird es nun zwei Spielkategorien geben:
>eine für Multiprozessoren, und eine für Singleprozessoren! Demnach werden wir
>also auf jeden Fall 2 Weltmeister haben, plus einen Amateurtitel!
>
>Auf den ersten Blick erscheint diese Lösung für alle Beteiligten gut, aber nur
>auf den ersten Blick!
>
>Denn, würde ein Programm auf einem Singleprozessor mehr Punkte einfahren als die
>vermutlich auf "Dualsystemen" spielenden Programme, so wäre der Titel für den
>Multiprozessor-Titel kaum der Rede wert!
>Wird es anders ausgehen, so haben die "Singles" ein "Alibi" für die schlechtere
>Platzierung.
>
>Das Gelbe vom Ei ist diese neue Regelung für mich daher NICHT!
>
>Ich hätte es begrüßt wenn daher ALLE auf einem "Single" spielen müßten!
>
>Ich meine dass die ICCA einen Fehler begangen hat. Jeder Computerschach
>Interessierte konnte sich im letzten halben Jahr davon überzeugen dass die neuen
>Intelprozessoren (P4) für Computerschach nichts taugen.
>Für jene Programmierer die einen INTEL Prozessor favorisieren, bleibt der Dual
>die einzige Wahl um konkurrieren zu können. Die ICCA hätte daher schon längst
>die Duals zulassen sollen (und nicht erst vor wenigen Wochen), und keiner hätte
>dann etwas zum Meckern gehabt. Nun hat man also aus der Not eine Tugend gemacht
>indem zwei Titel vergeben werden, nur: gewinnen können so letztlich nur die
>Singles. Für Multiprozessor Systeme steht weit mehr auf dem Spiel!

I think the opposite is true.

Let's first list entries which are possible dual:
  Crafty
  Diep
  Ferret
  Fritz
  Junior
  Shredder
  SOS

Possible entering single title:
  Gandalf
  Gromitchess
  Pharaon
  Rebel
  Spidergirl
  Tao
  Tiger
  Xinix

Now even if none of the single cpu machines say they want to qualify
for the multiprocessor title, then still there is a clear strength
difference in favour of duals.

Chance that a single cpu machine is going to win this champ is real
small. The only possibility of this happening is if Shredder enters
the single cpu competition.

Even then it will have a problem with 9 rounds to go.

When we closely examine the single cpu list then we see a lot of
strong programs (only strong programs in world champ usually),
one of them, Rebel, could better next year ask to play for a senior
title, as now it's not going to win any title, but it might of course
help tiger by beating other single cpu stuff.

This help must NOT be underestimated. Also with some major bookluck
it might win itself that single cpu title.

Anyway times will be tough to let a single cpu win the tournament.
I estimate it at near 0% actually.

And i'll explain why i think that's so low. First of all the only
real interesting program to get a high score in the single cpu list
would be tiger. This is the only program in that list which is
equipped with a real killerbook.

May i however remind that Tiger has major problems winning at levels
like 2 minutes a move and that its antipositional play which is
dominated by big search depths, is completely non-relevant as the
other side of the board has 2 processors?

So the extra search depth which Tiger gets by smart pruning
and throwing away positional more correct scored variations,
the other side of the board is compensating by another processor.

So the engine tiger is joining a kind of nightmare championship
for it. apart from that i think that also within the single list
there are a load of engines which are better as tiger, if Noomen
doesn't kill those in opening completely, then Tiger has a major
problem scoring a full point.

And as we know, to win a tournament like this, you need like 7.5 points,
which is means you can only afford 3 draws and 6 wins.

In short each 3 games you may at most give away half a point.

One misevaluation of a position and misstrategy and you're gone.

The practical chances that a single is going to get more points
than a dual this championship i therefore see very realistically at
near zero.

In the case a dual is going to win this tournament, then
it's very realistic to assume that all what counts in the score
tables that this program is ahead in points of the other one with
a world title.

In human chess we have also 2 world champions.
We have Kramnik holding the world title which he won from Kasparov
by superb technique in the endgame.

We have Anand holding a knockout-FIDE world title against a bunch
of 2600-2700 rated players.

both are great champs, but everyone will agree that the title of
Kramnik is definitely more impressive.

In this championship the dual title is therefore going to
be more important, because the chance is over 99% that this is
based upon more points than the single world title.

Best regards,
Vincent

>Eduard
 



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