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Subject: Re: Null move R=3

Author: Bruce Moreland

Date: 09:46:36 08/09/01

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On August 09, 2001 at 10:33:51, Dieter Buerssner wrote:

>On August 07, 2001 at 16:03:34, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>
>>I've often heard people state that null move with R=3 is better than with R=2,
>>but I have never ever ever gotten a test result that indicates this.
>
>I also did quite some experiments here. Many similar to the ones you described.
>Like R=3 at the tips and at the root. Changing between R=2 and 3 by remaining
>search depth, and also dependent on the relative depth (say depth 10 wanted, and
>change between the R at 5). The later yields in yet another inconsistency with
>the hash tables...
>
>At test positions, I found no convincing difference between them all. There is
>one exception. I think in rook endgames mostly the higer R was better.
>
>I did test games (I think mostly 5min+3sec) vs. Crafty. And when I tried this
>first, almost anything, that had some sort of dynamical null move performed
>better. Later, when I tried to reproduce, I could not see this anymore. Now, it
>seems that R=2 allways is better.
>
>I think, the higer R hurts especially in positions, that look rather unforced to
>the engine. Say White has a pawn at f6. Black castled K-side. Now perhaps white
>can make 3 moves with the Q, until it reaches h6 for the mate threat. Say white
>sacs some material while doing this. So lines with the Q-move null will fail
>high for black. To a human, this can look rather simple. With high R, this can
>need a lot of depth. One one such oversight may of course outweigh all advantage
>gained by the general higher search depth.
>
>BTW. You mentioned, that Yace is using dynamical null move. It actually doesn't
>by default. It has the framework, and it can be changed by the user, to swithc
>to dynamical null move. But with the default setup, it will use R=2, and R=1 in
>positions with only one minor piece per side.
>
>I am using a null move algorithim, that is functionally similar to the "double
>null move" Vincent has explained here some times.

I don't recall what that was, and I am interested enough that I'm embarass
myself by asking:  What was that?

bruce

>
>Regards,
>Dieter



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