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Subject: Re: Question: WAC.001 and null move

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 11:30:15 08/20/01

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On August 20, 2001 at 11:56:35, José Carlos wrote:

>On August 20, 2001 at 09:43:22, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On August 20, 2001 at 05:22:36, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>
>>>On August 20, 2001 at 04:41:41, José Carlos wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Then I tried not doing it in the PV, and the strange things went out. The tree
>>>>got smaller and the search deeper.
>>>>  I don't know if this is the correct way of doing it (never do a null-move in
>>>>the PV), cause I like to try myself before looking other's sources to see how
>>>>they do it. But looks reasonable. In the PV, we don't expect to fail high, so
>>>>why trying a null move?
>>>
>>>I don't do this, and crafty doesn't seem to be doing this either.
>>>
>>>However, your explanation makes perfect sense and I will try it.
>>>
>>>--
>>>GCP
>>
>>
>>I used to do it but I found that trying nulls _everywhere_ actually made my
>>tree smaller.  I do it this way now because it was more efficient when I
>>tested it..  Not by a lot, but better.
>
>  Mmm, some time ago I asked about my not enough deep search, and some of you
>pointed me to the move ordering. I found that null moves in the PV caused the PV
>to go crazy sometimes. So I stoped doint null moves in the PV (according to my
>previous post reasoning) and I did the trick. My fail high on the first
>move/fail highs rate moved from 86-92% to 90-96%. And my search went to 'normal
>depths'. Now I doubt again... Is there something I have to take into account
>when doing null moves in the PV to avoid getting strange PV's? I know, the
>question is too vague but, maybe someone has an idea.
>  So, everyone does null moves in the PV?
>
>  José C.



I don't see how nulls on the PV can cause "strange PVs".  If you have a position
that drives your search nuts, post it and I will run it with Crafty with null
on and off to see how it behaves.

Null-move definitely causes quirks here and there, particularly false fail highs
if you use PVS and you have to handle them correctly or blow up.



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