Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 01:15:22 08/21/01
Go up one level in this thread
On August 20, 2001 at 17:05:35, Uri Blass wrote: diep wanted first 13 plies g5-g4 with +3.7 or something for black up, but at 13 ply i got a major fail low from several pawns with a 25 ply line or something (as all passer moves gets extended and such crap as well i have all singular extensions turned and some threat extensions). I am not convinced g4 is winning unless i see a > 25 ply line proof :) Note that diep was simply happier about the bad move Kc5 because of the horizon effect which causes white to run faster with its pawn as most think. What i wonder about is whether move 35..fxg3 was winning in an easy way for diep. if you have such a big mess already as happened on the board, obviously diep could easily win in an easier way somewhere else sooner in the game. Note that shredder completely misevaluated the endgame. From the start it was happy for itself, diep was bigtime happy for itself. I've never been negative except the start of th egame where i did not predict Qxd8? which btw was played because of a 'feature'in shredder very quick. shredder fails itself also low on qxd8 if it would not have played capture moves quicker. It played Qxd8 within a minute. I find it a big mistake from Stefan to join with a single cpu into this tournament instead of a dual AMD. for shredder speed is important! >Here is some analysis of shredder5.32 p200(64 Mbytes hash tables) > >Diep blundered in the relevant position by Kc5 when g4 is winning. >The surprising thing is that Shredder also cannot see g4 in a reasonable time >and need more than 5 hours on p200 to avoid Kc5 (it probably means that Shredder >with the best hardware of today cannot avoid Kc5 at tournament time control). > >h5 is probably enough to win(I did not analyze it and I may be wrong) but g4 is >the simplest way to win > >I thought that Shredder is better in the endgame than other programs but I doubt >it after seeing that shredder also does the same mistake that Diep did when Deep >Fritz has no problem to find the right move with a winning score. > >,M - Shredder 5.32 >2b5/7p/P2k4/1P4p1/2Ppp3/5pP1/1N3K1P/8 b - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Shredder 5.32: > >1...Bxa6 2.bxa6 > +- (3.03) Depth: 1/2 00:00:00 >1...Kc5 2.h4 Kb6 3.hxg5 > = (-0.18) Depth: 1/2 00:00:00 >1...Kc5 2.h4 Kb6 3.hxg5 > = (-0.18) Depth: 1/2 00:00:00 >1...Kc5 2.h4 Kb6 3.hxg5 > = (-0.18) Depth: 1/2 00:00:00 >1...Kc5 2.h4 Kb6 3.hxg5 > = (-0.18) Depth: 1/2 00:00:00 >1...Kc5 2.h4 Kb6 3.hxg5 > = (-0.18) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >1...Kc5 2.h4 Kb6 3.hxg5 > = (-0.18) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >1...Kc5 2.h4 Kb6 3.hxg5 > = (-0.18) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >1...Kc5 2.h4 Kb6 3.hxg5 > = (-0.18) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >1...Kc5 2.Ke1 e3 3.h4 gxh4 4.gxh4 > = (-0.17) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kxc4 3.h3 > ³ (-0.42) Depth: 5/10 00:00:00 >1...Kc5 2.h3 h6 3.g4 Kb6 > µ (-0.73) Depth: 5/10 00:00:00 >1...Kc5 2.g4 e3+ 3.Kxf3 Bb7+ 4.axb7 h6 5.b8Q > ³ (-0.48) Depth: 6/12 00:00:00 8kN >1...Kc5 2.g4 Bxg4 3.a7 e3+ 4.Kg3 f2 5.Kxg4 f1Q 6.a8Q > ³ (-0.40) Depth: 6/12 00:00:00 9kN >1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kxc4 3.Nb6+ Kc3 4.Nxc8 Kb3 > = (-0.15) Depth: 7/14 00:00:00 21kN >1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kxc4 3.Nb6+ Kc3 4.Nxc8 Kb3 5.a7 e3+ 6.Kxf3 > ² (0.35) Depth: 7/14 00:00:00 22kN >1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kb4 3.Nb6 Bg4 4.Ke1 e3 5.h4 gxh4 > ² (0.40) Depth: 7/14 00:00:01 28kN >1...Kc7 2.Ke1 e3 3.c5 f2+ 4.Kd1 f1Q+ 5.Kc2 Qxb5 > ² (0.39) Depth: 7/14 00:00:01 45kN >1...Kc7 2.Ke1 e3 3.c5 f2+ 4.Kd1 f1Q+ 5.Kc2 Qxb5 > = (0.04) Depth: 7/14 00:00:01 51kN >1...Kc7 2.c5 Kb8 3.h4 Be6 4.b6 Bb3 5.hxg5 > = (0.01) Depth: 7/14 00:00:01 56kN >1...g4 2.Ke1 Kc5 3.a7 Bb7 4.h3 > = (0.00) Depth: 7/14 00:00:02 66kN >1...g4 2.Na4 e3+ 3.Kf1 Kc7 4.b6+ Kc6 5.b7 > ³ (-0.28) Depth: 7/14 00:00:02 69kN >1...g4 2.Ke1 Kc5 3.Na4+ Kxc4 4.Nb6+ Kxb5 5.Nxc8 Kxa6 6.Nd6 > ³ (-0.52) Depth: 8/16 00:00:02 91kN >1...g4 2.Na4 e3+ 3.Kf1 Kc7 4.c5 Kb8 5.Nb6 Be6 6.Ke1 > ³ (-0.39) Depth: 9/18 00:00:05 192kN >1...g4 2.Ke1 Kc5 3.Kf1 e3 4.a7 Bb7 5.h3 > ³ (-0.62) Depth: 10/20 00:00:08 341kN >1...g4 2.Ke1 Kc5 3.Na4+ Kxc4 4.Nb6+ Kxb5 5.Nxc8 Kxa6 6.Nd6 Ka7 > ³ (-0.37) Depth: 11/22 00:00:12 504kN >1...g4 2.Ke1 Kc5 3.Na4+ Kxc4 4.Nb6+ Kxb5 5.Nxc8 Kxa6 6.Nd6 e3 7.Nf5 Kb5 8.Nxd4+ >Kc4 > = (-0.25) Depth: 11/22 00:00:13 565kN >1...h5 2.Na4 Bg4 3.c5+ Ke5 4.Ke1 e3 5.Nb6 f2+ 6.Kf1 d3 7.c6 > ³ (-0.26) Depth: 11/22 00:00:22 958kN >1...h5 2.h4 gxh4 3.gxh4 Kc5 4.Na4+ Kb4 5.Nb6 e3+ 6.Kxf3 Bg4+ 7.Kg3 d3 > ³ (-0.33) Depth: 11/22 00:00:25 1113kN >1...h5 2.h3 g4 3.hxg4 Bxg4 4.Nd1 Bc8 5.c5+ Kxc5 6.a7 e3+ 7.Kf1 Bb7 8.Nxe3 > ³ (-0.57) Depth: 12/24 00:01:02 2696kN >1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kxc4 3.Nb6+ Kd3 4.Nxc8 e3+ 5.Kxf3 e2 6.Kg4 e1Q 7.Kf5 > ³ (-0.58) Depth: 12/24 00:01:35 4113kN >1...Kc5 2.g4 Kb4 3.h3 h6 4.Ke1 Kb3 5.Na4 Kxa4 6.Kf1 > µ (-0.82) Depth: 12/24 00:01:49 4762kN >1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kxc4 3.Nb6+ Kd3 4.g4 Bxg4 5.a7 e3+ 6.Kg3 f2 7.a8Q Kc3 8.Kxg4 e2 >9.Kxg5 f1Q 10.Qc6+ Kd2 > ³ (-0.57) Depth: 13/25 00:02:21 6189kN >1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kxc4 3.Nb6+ Kd3 4.g4 e3+ 5.Kxf3 Bxg4+ 6.Kg3 Kc2 7.Nc4 Be6 8.Nd6 > ³ (-0.28) Depth: 13/25 00:02:29 6573kN >1...h5 2.h3 g4 3.hxg4 Bxg4 4.Nd1 Bc8 5.c5+ Kxc5 6.a7 e3+ 7.Kg1 Bb7 8.Nc3 dxc3 > ³ (-0.29) Depth: 13/25 00:02:37 6926kN >1...h5 2.h3 g4 3.hxg4 Bxg4 4.Nd1 Bc8 5.Ke1 Kc5 6.Kd2 Kxc4 > ³ (-0.63) Depth: 13/25 00:02:51 7581kN >1...h5 2.h4 gxh4 3.gxh4 Kc5 4.Na4+ Kb4 5.Nb6 e3+ 6.Kxf3 Bxa6 7.bxa6 e2 8.Kxe2 > ³ (-0.38) Depth: 14/26 00:04:47 12859kN >1...h5 2.h4 g4 3.Ke1 Kc5 4.Na4+ Kxc4 5.Nb6+ Kxb5 6.Nxc8 Kxa6 7.Nd6 e3 8.Nf5 Kb5 > ³ (-0.36) Depth: 14/26 00:05:01 13537kN >1...h5 2.h4 g4 3.Ke1 Kc5 4.Na4+ Kxc4 5.Nb6+ Kxb5 6.Nxc8 Kxa6 7.Nd6 e3 8.Nf5 Kb5 > ³ (-0.36) Depth: 15/27 00:10:07 26947kN >1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kxc4 3.Nb6+ Kd3 4.g4 e3+ 5.Kxf3 Bxg4+ 6.Kxg4 e2 7.a7 e1Q 8.a8Q >Qe6+ 9.Kxg5 Qg6+ 10.Kh4 Qxb6 11.Qe4+ Kxe4 > ³ (-0.37) Depth: 15/27 00:11:31 30573kN >1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kxc4 3.Nb6+ Kd3 4.g4 e3+ 5.Kxf3 Bxg4+ 6.Kxg4 e2 7.a7 e1Q 8.a8Q >Qe6+ 9.Kxg5 Qg6+ 10.Kf4 > ³ (-0.40) Depth: 15/27 00:12:51 33950kN >1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kxc4 3.Nb6+ Kd3 4.g4 e3+ 5.Kxf3 Bxg4+ 6.Kxg4 e2 7.a7 e1Q 8.a8Q >Qe6+ 9.Kxg5 Qxb6 10.Qa3+ > ³ (-0.51) Depth: 16/28 00:20:54 55485kN >1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kxc4 3.Nb6+ Kd3 4.g4 e3+ 5.Kxf3 e2 6.Kf2 Be6 7.a7 Kd2 8.a8Q > µ (-0.76) Depth: 17/29 00:38:52 103816kN >1...Kc5 2.g4 Kb4 3.h3 h6 4.Kg3 Bb7 5.axb7 e3 6.b8Q f2 7.c5 f1Q 8.Nd3+ Qxd3 9.c6 >Qe4 > µ (-0.76) Depth: 17/29 00:57:35 153424kN >1...Kc5 2.g4 Kb4 3.h3 h6 4.Kg3 Bb7 5.axb7 e3 6.b8Q f2 7.b6 f1Q 8.Qd6+ Kc3 9.Qa3+ >Kc2 10.Nd3 Qf2+ 11.Nxf2 e2 > ³ (-0.51) Depth: 18/30 02:02:04 321943kN >1...Kc5 2.g4 Kb4 3.h3 h6 4.Kg3 d3 5.c5 Kxc5 6.a7 Bb7 7.a8Q Bxa8 > ³ (-0.51) Depth: 18/30 02:11:44 347226kN >1...h5 2.h4 gxh4 3.gxh4 Kc5 4.Na4+ Kxc4 5.Nb6+ Kd3 6.Nd5 Bg4 7.Ke1 e3 8.Nf4+ Kc4 >9.Nd5 > ³ (-0.52) Depth: 18/30 05:25:05 844970kN >1...h5 2.h4 gxh4 3.gxh4 Kc5 4.Na4+ Kxc4 5.Nb6+ Kd3 6.a7 e3+ 7.Kg3 Bb7 8.a8Q Bxa8 >9.Nxa8 Ke4 > µ (-0.86) Depth: 18/30 05:47:00 902698kN >1...g4 2.Ke1 Kc5 3.Na4+ Kb4 4.Nb6 e3 5.Nxc8 d3 6.Kf1 d2 7.a7 > µ (-0.87) Depth: 18/30 08:19:09 1300076kN >1...g4 2.Ke1 Kc5 3.Na4+ Kb4 4.Nb6 e3 5.Nxc8 d3 6.a7 f2+ 7.Kf1 d2 8.a8Q d1Q+ >9.Kg2 > µ (-1.22) Depth: 18/30 08:24:56 1315417kN >1...g4 2.Ke1 Kc5 3.Na4+ Kb4 4.Nb2 e3 5.c5 Kxc5 6.Nd3+ Kxb5 7.a7 Bb7 8.a8N Bxa8 > -+ (-3.31) Depth: 18/30 09:34:07 1490700kN >1...g4 2.Ke1 Kc5 3.Na4+ Kb4 4.a7 Bb7 5.Nb6 d3 6.Nd5+ Kxc4 7.Ne3+ Kxb5 8.Nxg4 Kb6 >9.Kd2 h5 10.Nf2 > -+ (-3.43) Depth: 19/31 11:30:19 1781143kN > >Uri
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