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Subject: Re: Shredder5.32's problems in the endgame

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 01:17:07 08/21/01

Go up one level in this thread


On August 20, 2001 at 23:24:02, Robert Hyatt wrote:

don't use a laptop.

i'm tactical hell stronger and i got a major fail low for g4 at
a big depth with a 25 ply line.

If you see a 25 ply line for g4, then also say whether it remains playing
g4 :)



>On August 20, 2001 at 17:05:35, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>Here is some analysis of shredder5.32 p200(64 Mbytes hash tables)
>>
>>Diep blundered in the relevant position by Kc5 when g4 is winning.
>>The surprising thing is that Shredder also cannot see g4 in  a reasonable time
>>and need more than 5 hours on p200 to avoid Kc5 (it probably means that Shredder
>>with the best hardware of today cannot avoid Kc5 at tournament time control).
>>
>>h5 is probably enough to win(I did not analyze it and I may be wrong) but g4 is
>>the simplest way to win
>>
>>I thought that Shredder is better in the endgame than other programs but I doubt
>>it after seeing that shredder also does the same mistake that Diep did when Deep
>>Fritz has no problem to find the right move with a winning score.
>>
>>,M - Shredder 5.32
>>2b5/7p/P2k4/1P4p1/2Ppp3/5pP1/1N3K1P/8 b - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Shredder 5.32:
>>
>>1...Bxa6 2.bxa6
>>  +-  (3.03)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
>>1...Kc5 2.h4 Kb6 3.hxg5
>>  =  (-0.18)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
>>1...Kc5 2.h4 Kb6 3.hxg5
>>  =  (-0.18)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
>>1...Kc5 2.h4 Kb6 3.hxg5
>>  =  (-0.18)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
>>1...Kc5 2.h4 Kb6 3.hxg5
>>  =  (-0.18)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
>>1...Kc5 2.h4 Kb6 3.hxg5
>>  =  (-0.18)   Depth: 4/8   00:00:00
>>1...Kc5 2.h4 Kb6 3.hxg5
>>  =  (-0.18)   Depth: 4/8   00:00:00
>>1...Kc5 2.h4 Kb6 3.hxg5
>>  =  (-0.18)   Depth: 4/8   00:00:00
>>1...Kc5 2.h4 Kb6 3.hxg5
>>  =  (-0.18)   Depth: 4/8   00:00:00
>>1...Kc5 2.Ke1 e3 3.h4 gxh4 4.gxh4
>>  =  (-0.17)   Depth: 4/8   00:00:00
>>1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kxc4 3.h3
>>  ³  (-0.42)   Depth: 5/10   00:00:00
>>1...Kc5 2.h3 h6 3.g4 Kb6
>>  µ  (-0.73)   Depth: 5/10   00:00:00
>>1...Kc5 2.g4 e3+ 3.Kxf3 Bb7+ 4.axb7 h6 5.b8Q
>>  ³  (-0.48)   Depth: 6/12   00:00:00  8kN
>>1...Kc5 2.g4 Bxg4 3.a7 e3+ 4.Kg3 f2 5.Kxg4 f1Q 6.a8Q
>>  ³  (-0.40)   Depth: 6/12   00:00:00  9kN
>>1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kxc4 3.Nb6+ Kc3 4.Nxc8 Kb3
>>  =  (-0.15)   Depth: 7/14   00:00:00  21kN
>>1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kxc4 3.Nb6+ Kc3 4.Nxc8 Kb3 5.a7 e3+ 6.Kxf3
>>  ²  (0.35)   Depth: 7/14   00:00:00  22kN
>>1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kb4 3.Nb6 Bg4 4.Ke1 e3 5.h4 gxh4
>>  ²  (0.40)   Depth: 7/14   00:00:01  28kN
>>1...Kc7 2.Ke1 e3 3.c5 f2+ 4.Kd1 f1Q+ 5.Kc2 Qxb5
>>  ²  (0.39)   Depth: 7/14   00:00:01  45kN
>>1...Kc7 2.Ke1 e3 3.c5 f2+ 4.Kd1 f1Q+ 5.Kc2 Qxb5
>>  =  (0.04)   Depth: 7/14   00:00:01  51kN
>>1...Kc7 2.c5 Kb8 3.h4 Be6 4.b6 Bb3 5.hxg5
>>  =  (0.01)   Depth: 7/14   00:00:01  56kN
>>1...g4 2.Ke1 Kc5 3.a7 Bb7 4.h3
>>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 7/14   00:00:02  66kN
>>1...g4 2.Na4 e3+ 3.Kf1 Kc7 4.b6+ Kc6 5.b7
>>  ³  (-0.28)   Depth: 7/14   00:00:02  69kN
>>1...g4 2.Ke1 Kc5 3.Na4+ Kxc4 4.Nb6+ Kxb5 5.Nxc8 Kxa6 6.Nd6
>>  ³  (-0.52)   Depth: 8/16   00:00:02  91kN
>>1...g4 2.Na4 e3+ 3.Kf1 Kc7 4.c5 Kb8 5.Nb6 Be6 6.Ke1
>>  ³  (-0.39)   Depth: 9/18   00:00:05  192kN
>>1...g4 2.Ke1 Kc5 3.Kf1 e3 4.a7 Bb7 5.h3
>>  ³  (-0.62)   Depth: 10/20   00:00:08  341kN
>>1...g4 2.Ke1 Kc5 3.Na4+ Kxc4 4.Nb6+ Kxb5 5.Nxc8 Kxa6 6.Nd6 Ka7
>>  ³  (-0.37)   Depth: 11/22   00:00:12  504kN
>>1...g4 2.Ke1 Kc5 3.Na4+ Kxc4 4.Nb6+ Kxb5 5.Nxc8 Kxa6 6.Nd6 e3 7.Nf5 Kb5 8.Nxd4+
>>Kc4
>>  =  (-0.25)   Depth: 11/22   00:00:13  565kN
>>1...h5 2.Na4 Bg4 3.c5+ Ke5 4.Ke1 e3 5.Nb6 f2+ 6.Kf1 d3 7.c6
>>  ³  (-0.26)   Depth: 11/22   00:00:22  958kN
>>1...h5 2.h4 gxh4 3.gxh4 Kc5 4.Na4+ Kb4 5.Nb6 e3+ 6.Kxf3 Bg4+ 7.Kg3 d3
>>  ³  (-0.33)   Depth: 11/22   00:00:25  1113kN
>>1...h5 2.h3 g4 3.hxg4 Bxg4 4.Nd1 Bc8 5.c5+ Kxc5 6.a7 e3+ 7.Kf1 Bb7 8.Nxe3
>>  ³  (-0.57)   Depth: 12/24   00:01:02  2696kN
>>1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kxc4 3.Nb6+ Kd3 4.Nxc8 e3+ 5.Kxf3 e2 6.Kg4 e1Q 7.Kf5
>>  ³  (-0.58)   Depth: 12/24   00:01:35  4113kN
>>1...Kc5 2.g4 Kb4 3.h3 h6 4.Ke1 Kb3 5.Na4 Kxa4 6.Kf1
>>  µ  (-0.82)   Depth: 12/24   00:01:49  4762kN
>>1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kxc4 3.Nb6+ Kd3 4.g4 Bxg4 5.a7 e3+ 6.Kg3 f2 7.a8Q Kc3 8.Kxg4 e2
>>9.Kxg5 f1Q 10.Qc6+ Kd2
>>  ³  (-0.57)   Depth: 13/25   00:02:21  6189kN
>>1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kxc4 3.Nb6+ Kd3 4.g4 e3+ 5.Kxf3 Bxg4+ 6.Kg3 Kc2 7.Nc4 Be6 8.Nd6
>>  ³  (-0.28)   Depth: 13/25   00:02:29  6573kN
>>1...h5 2.h3 g4 3.hxg4 Bxg4 4.Nd1 Bc8 5.c5+ Kxc5 6.a7 e3+ 7.Kg1 Bb7 8.Nc3 dxc3
>>  ³  (-0.29)   Depth: 13/25   00:02:37  6926kN
>>1...h5 2.h3 g4 3.hxg4 Bxg4 4.Nd1 Bc8 5.Ke1 Kc5 6.Kd2 Kxc4
>>  ³  (-0.63)   Depth: 13/25   00:02:51  7581kN
>>1...h5 2.h4 gxh4 3.gxh4 Kc5 4.Na4+ Kb4 5.Nb6 e3+ 6.Kxf3 Bxa6 7.bxa6 e2 8.Kxe2
>>  ³  (-0.38)   Depth: 14/26   00:04:47  12859kN
>>1...h5 2.h4 g4 3.Ke1 Kc5 4.Na4+ Kxc4 5.Nb6+ Kxb5 6.Nxc8 Kxa6 7.Nd6 e3 8.Nf5 Kb5
>>  ³  (-0.36)   Depth: 14/26   00:05:01  13537kN
>>1...h5 2.h4 g4 3.Ke1 Kc5 4.Na4+ Kxc4 5.Nb6+ Kxb5 6.Nxc8 Kxa6 7.Nd6 e3 8.Nf5 Kb5
>>  ³  (-0.36)   Depth: 15/27   00:10:07  26947kN
>>1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kxc4 3.Nb6+ Kd3 4.g4 e3+ 5.Kxf3 Bxg4+ 6.Kxg4 e2 7.a7 e1Q 8.a8Q
>>Qe6+ 9.Kxg5 Qg6+ 10.Kh4 Qxb6 11.Qe4+ Kxe4
>>  ³  (-0.37)   Depth: 15/27   00:11:31  30573kN
>>1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kxc4 3.Nb6+ Kd3 4.g4 e3+ 5.Kxf3 Bxg4+ 6.Kxg4 e2 7.a7 e1Q 8.a8Q
>>Qe6+ 9.Kxg5 Qg6+ 10.Kf4
>>  ³  (-0.40)   Depth: 15/27   00:12:51  33950kN
>>1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kxc4 3.Nb6+ Kd3 4.g4 e3+ 5.Kxf3 Bxg4+ 6.Kxg4 e2 7.a7 e1Q 8.a8Q
>>Qe6+ 9.Kxg5 Qxb6 10.Qa3+
>>  ³  (-0.51)   Depth: 16/28   00:20:54  55485kN
>>1...Kc5 2.Na4+ Kxc4 3.Nb6+ Kd3 4.g4 e3+ 5.Kxf3 e2 6.Kf2 Be6 7.a7 Kd2 8.a8Q
>>  µ  (-0.76)   Depth: 17/29   00:38:52  103816kN
>>1...Kc5 2.g4 Kb4 3.h3 h6 4.Kg3 Bb7 5.axb7 e3 6.b8Q f2 7.c5 f1Q 8.Nd3+ Qxd3 9.c6
>>Qe4
>>  µ  (-0.76)   Depth: 17/29   00:57:35  153424kN
>>1...Kc5 2.g4 Kb4 3.h3 h6 4.Kg3 Bb7 5.axb7 e3 6.b8Q f2 7.b6 f1Q 8.Qd6+ Kc3 9.Qa3+
>>Kc2 10.Nd3 Qf2+ 11.Nxf2 e2
>>  ³  (-0.51)   Depth: 18/30   02:02:04  321943kN
>>1...Kc5 2.g4 Kb4 3.h3 h6 4.Kg3 d3 5.c5 Kxc5 6.a7 Bb7 7.a8Q Bxa8
>>  ³  (-0.51)   Depth: 18/30   02:11:44  347226kN
>>1...h5 2.h4 gxh4 3.gxh4 Kc5 4.Na4+ Kxc4 5.Nb6+ Kd3 6.Nd5 Bg4 7.Ke1 e3 8.Nf4+ Kc4
>>9.Nd5
>>  ³  (-0.52)   Depth: 18/30   05:25:05  844970kN
>>1...h5 2.h4 gxh4 3.gxh4 Kc5 4.Na4+ Kxc4 5.Nb6+ Kd3 6.a7 e3+ 7.Kg3 Bb7 8.a8Q Bxa8
>>9.Nxa8 Ke4
>>  µ  (-0.86)   Depth: 18/30   05:47:00  902698kN
>>1...g4 2.Ke1 Kc5 3.Na4+ Kb4 4.Nb6 e3 5.Nxc8 d3 6.Kf1 d2 7.a7
>>  µ  (-0.87)   Depth: 18/30   08:19:09  1300076kN
>>1...g4 2.Ke1 Kc5 3.Na4+ Kb4 4.Nb6 e3 5.Nxc8 d3 6.a7 f2+ 7.Kf1 d2 8.a8Q d1Q+
>>9.Kg2
>>  µ  (-1.22)   Depth: 18/30   08:24:56  1315417kN
>>1...g4 2.Ke1 Kc5 3.Na4+ Kb4 4.Nb2 e3 5.c5 Kxc5 6.Nd3+ Kxb5 7.a7 Bb7 8.a8N Bxa8
>>  -+  (-3.31)   Depth: 18/30   09:34:07  1490700kN
>>1...g4 2.Ke1 Kc5 3.Na4+ Kb4 4.a7 Bb7 5.Nb6 d3 6.Nd5+ Kxc4 7.Ne3+ Kxb5 8.Nxg4 Kb6
>>9.Kd2 h5 10.Nf2
>>  -+  (-3.43)   Depth: 19/31   11:30:19  1781143kN
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>Not sure what is wrong... but in crafty's case, it only plays g4 here, and it
>only takes a fraction of a second to find it on my laptop.  By the time 13
>plies rolls around the score is -3.51 and getting better and better for black.



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