Author: Peter Berger
Date: 14:25:34 08/21/01
Go up one level in this thread
On August 21, 2001 at 13:52:01, Dieter Buerssner wrote: I tried your positions with the program "Der Bringer" ( http://www.reubold.onlinehome.de) by Gerrit Reubold on an Athlon 1333 computer. >Two mates from an actual game postition with equal material on the board. >The first one may not be difficult to find for playing programs. It is a >mate in 9 or better. > > r2q1r1k/1pbbn2B/p1n1p1p1/3p2NQ/1P1p1P2/P1P1B3/6PP/R4RK1 w - - 0 18 This one is very easy as you expected. 0:00:05.2 ( 9/28) 1294302 8.69 h7xg6 (Mat=-235,50=0) 0:00:11.4 ( 9/36) 2801304 Matt in 9 h7xg6 h8-g7 h5-h7 g7-f6 g2-g4 > >The second one is mate in 19 or better. This positions occured 2 moves >earlier in the game. > >[D] r2q1rk1/1pbbn1pp/p1n1p3/3p2N1/1P1p1P2/P1PBB3/6PP/R2Q1RK1 w - - 0 16 > >Yace cannot find this mate, without help by first analysing some lines. This is called cheating Dieter, isn't it ;-)) ? OK - without any tricks :) : 0:14:03.6 (13/42) 222073875 18.88 d3xh7 g8-h8 d1-h5 f8-f6 (Mat=-335,50=3) 0:17:04.9 (14/42) 268965501 19.28 d3xh7 (Mat=-335,50=0) 0:32:29.9 (14/46) 517708825 19.68 d3xh7 (Mat=-335,50=0) 1:17:51.5 (14/46) 1269029346 20.42 d3xh7 g8-h8 d1-h5 g7-g6 (Mat=-335,50=0) Not solved - I somehow expect this should be solveable in less than 10 hours for Bringer at ply 15 but this remains to be tested ( hardware advances are a thrill btw - a nice potential bug : what will Bringer do after about 11 hours when the internal node counter in the GUI can't display the positions searched anymore ?! ) . >With French Winawer, I have seen quite a few short computer chess games, >also often, losses by Yace. But I have also seen fast wins for Black. >Chester expected 15. fxe5. I think, 15. Ng5 is already winning, but Yace could >not see it yet in the game. Actually, the two moves were rather close in score, >which also shows, that there can be quite some luck involved. > >Regards, >Dieter You won't see the real problem with the Winawer against computers. The Winawer might or might not be a good opening against other silicon GMs - this is probably mainly a book tuning issue or luck . I think if you avoid the positions with the penetrating queen on g7,h7 this should be very playable against computers. Problem is : all of them don't understand the positions resulting from the main variations well. Against a strong human the Winawer is a very bad choice I am sure. Btw also playing against it with white is a hard challenge for the same reasons. But the question which openings are a good choice for a computer seems to remain open: there doesn't seem to be any publication about that. And even most of the professionals don't seem to do too well. Look at Maastricht and our world master . Round 1 and 3 showed Shredder playing lines that should be very well known for not being suitable for a game against a computer IMHO - and this was prepared by one of the world's leading experts .. The only ones with really good opening books seem to be Quest,Junior,Tiger,Rebel and Diep ( this one looks very much improved to me) this time. The Crafty book looks miserable again ( sorry, no offense intended although it probably will sound like that anyway) . The Ferret book doesn't impress much either. It seems to be a trial and error issue though : at last most seem to have come up with the Najdorf and the Semi-Slav ( although 1.d4 seems to be very uncommon - why ? ) . Some personal observations ( I'd really like to discuss this but I don't expect many answers ) : a.) Playing 1. ...e5 against 1. e4 will be good if White opts for the mainline Ruy Lopez only - this is a bad line for a computer as the black play requires only knowledge computers do have while doing well with White will either require book tuning to the extreme or knowledge I haven't seen yet. b.) Many openings that look very promising in computer play are waiting for discovery IMHO . Sveshnikov should be well for black in computer matches and how about 1. e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3. Nd2(c3) de 4. Nxe4 Bf5 ? Computers don't seem to be able to play this well with white but do very well with black. I have searched the archives for every interesting idea about opening books posted but the results are lame. Why is this such a secret issue I ask myself ? Cheers. pete
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.