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Subject: Re: Congratulation for chesstiger(better performance than shredder in wmccc)

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 07:16:48 08/24/01

Go up one level in this thread


On August 24, 2001 at 10:06:32, Miguel A. Ballicora wrote:

>On August 24, 2001 at 07:51:16, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On August 24, 2001 at 07:29:21, Günther Simon wrote:
>>
>>>On August 24, 2001 at 07:15:30, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 24, 2001 at 07:06:51, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Here are the results by
>>>>>elostat program
>>>>>
>>>>>You can see that shredder is only 3th place micro based on the performance.
>>>>>Shredder is the world Micro champion by definition but Tiger and Rebel had a
>>>>>better performance.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>1 Deep Junior 7                  : 2745  228 281     9    88.9 %   2384   22.2 %
>>>>>2 Quest (DeepFritz)              : 2550  266 169     9    66.7 %   2430   44.4 %
>>>>>3 Chess Tiger 14.6 Gambit Tiger  : 2499  291 229     9    55.6 %   2461   22.2 %
>>>>>4 Crafty 18.10X                  : 2467  291 165     9    55.6 %   2428   44.4 %
>>>>>5 Rebel                          : 2466  291 229     9    55.6 %   2428   22.2 %
>>>>>6 Shredder                       : 2466  266 249     9    66.7 %   2346   22.2 %
>>>>>7 Goliath                        : 2421  291 165     9    55.6 %   2382   44.4 %
>>>>>8 Gromit 3.9.5                   : 2364  278 201     9    61.1 %   2285   33.3 %
>>>>>9 Ferret                         : 2359  291 229     9    55.6 %   2320   22.2
>>>>>%10 Gandalf 5.0                   : 2310  291 229     9    55.6 %   2271   22.2
>>>>>%
>>>>>11 ParSOS                        : 2256  291 229     9    55.6 %   2217   22.2 %
>>>>>12 Diep                          : 2227  165 291     9    44.4 %   2265   44.4 %
>>>>>13 IsiChess X                    : 2166  201 278     9    38.9 %   2245   33.3 %
>>>>>14 Tao                           : 2165  229 291     9    44.4 %   2203   22.2 %
>>>>>15 Ruy Lopez                     : 2118  366 266     9    33.3 %   2238    0.0 %
>>>>>16 Pharaon                       : 2082  169 266     9    33.3 %   2202   44.4 %
>>>>>17 SpiderGirl                    : 2014  213 255     9    27.8 %   2180   33.3 %
>>>>>18 XiNiX                         : 1724  400 108     9     5.6 %   2216   11.1 %
>>>>>
>>>>>congratulation also for the Deep Junior team for winning the event convincingly
>>>>>when the difference from the second place is almost 200 elo and the hardware
>>>>>explain less than 70 elo difference.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>I can add that I think that it may be a better idea to use elostat to decide
>>>>about the world champion in the future.
>>>>
>>>>I know that a lot of people are going to disagree but it is my opinion.
>>>>I prefer a complicated method that does more justive and not a simple method.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>
>>>Sorry Uri - but this is really nonsens.
>>>You cant use ELO-Stat on a Swiss Tournament with 9 rounds as
>>>it is described by the author. ELO-Stat is designed to calculate
>>>ratings out of a pool of unknown rated progs with a very very lot
>>>of games.
>>>Therefor if you take a closer look at your table you would see that
>>>the error margin is at least 435!pts (Pharaon) and max 632!! (RuyLopez).
>>>And would you really believe Parallel SOS to be at 2256? :))
>>
>>The question is not which program is better.
>>competitions of 9 rounds are not supposed to answer this question.
>>
>>The question is which program did better result.
>>The elostat answer this question better than the ranking
>
>You forget the tournament strategy. Many times, you can adjust the contempt
>because you know that a draw is extremely convenient or will give you the
>title right away. Not to mention the selection of more or less agressive opening
>books for a special round. Sometimes, a draw is the same as a loss and you risk.
>That throws away any significance of a performance ELO in a 9 round tournament.
>This also applies for any human tournament.
>
>You can also have the weird situation where you got 8.5/9 and the one with 8/9
>has a better elo performance. They drew each other but a couple of opponents
>that play the 1st started to crash many games aftewards because of late minute
>changes in the code etc. That was totally out of control of the winner.


I think that it is not logical
If you get 8.5/9 your results are not worse than a player who got 8/9 and drew
against you.

We look for a stable rating
Suppose that you got 8.5/9
Suppose that the rating of the player you drew is better than your rating
I can prove that your rating is not stable and is going to get bigger after the
tournament.

you do not lose rating from winning 8 games and the rating of the opponents is
not important.
you win rating from drawing one game against a player with better elo rating so
the total result is that you earn rating.


If the elostat let situation when 8/9 is better than 8.5/9 including a draw
between the 2 best players then something is wrong with the elostat program.

Uri



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