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Subject: Re: what was the operator error in the diep vs crafty game

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 11:04:51 08/27/01

Go up one level in this thread


On August 26, 2001 at 04:29:51, Uri Blass wrote:

>On August 25, 2001 at 18:08:39, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On August 25, 2001 at 16:57:34, K. Burcham wrote:
>>
>>>1. does anyone know what the operator error was in the diep vs crafty game?
>>
>>He used winboard and crafty can't take back a move in winboard.
>>Idem for Zchess.
>>
>>Note i was at +2.0 against crafty already. I was busy mating it,
>>in fact.
>
>I cannot see that you were +2 against Crafty.
>
>Here is some analysis by Junior7 on pIII800(Junior used only 10 Mbytes hash but
>I know that it is not sensitive to hash tables)
>
>
>Diep - Crafty
>[D]3r2k1/3nqpp1/3r1n2/P1p3B1/2Q1B3/P3P3/5P1P/2R1K1R1 b - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Junior 7:
>
>26...Nxe4 27.Bxe7 Ndf6 28.Bxd8 Rxd8
>  +-  (5.99)   Depth: 3   00:00:00  1kN
>26...g6 27.Bxg6
>  +-  (2.24)   Depth: 3   00:00:00  1kN
>26...Ne5 27.Qxc5 Nxe4 28.Bxe7
>  ±  (1.20)   Depth: 3   00:00:00  1kN
>26...Qe5 27.Bg6
>  ±  (1.19)   Depth: 3   00:00:00  2kN
>26...Qe5 27.Bf4 Qb2 28.Bxd6 Nxe4
>  +-  (1.72)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  10kN
>26...Ne5!
>  ±  (0.89)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  12kN
>26...Ne5! 27.Qc2 Qa7 28.Bxf6 Qxa5+ 29.Kf1 Rxf6 30.Qxc5
>  ²  (0.54)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  28kN
>26...Ne5!
>  =  (0.24)   Depth: 9   00:00:00  193kN
>26...Ne5 27.Qa4 Rd2 28.Kf1 Qe6 29.Rg2 Nxe4 30.Qxe4 Qa6+ 31.Kg1
>  =  (0.12)   Depth: 12   00:00:03  2481kN
>26...Ne5!
>  =  (-0.18)   Depth: 15   00:00:37  25091kN
>26...Ne5!
>  ³  (-0.48)   Depth: 17   00:08:14  338102kN
>26...Ne5 27.Qa4 Qe6 28.Bxf6 Qxf6 29.Kf1 Rd2 30.Rg2 Nf3 31.Bxf3 Qxf3 32.Re1 Qh3
>33.Qe4
>  ³  (-0.28)   Depth: 18   00:15:43  602020kN
>
>(Blass, Tel-aviv 26.08.2001)
>
>
>
>Here is some analysis by Crafty(64 mbytes hash tables)
>
>
>Diep - Crafty
>3r2k1/3nqpp1/3r1n2/P1p3B1/2Q1B3/P3P3/5P1P/2R1K1R1 b - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Crafty 18.10:
>
>26...Qe5
>  ±  (1.23)   Depth: 1/11   00:00:05
>26...Nb8 27.Bf5
>  +-  (1.41)   Depth: 2/11   00:00:05
>26...Nb8 27.Bf5
>  +-  (1.41)   Depth: 2/11   00:00:05
>26...Nb8 27.Bf5
>  +-  (1.41)   Depth: 2/11   00:00:05
>26...Re6 27.Bf5
>  ±  (1.35)   Depth: 2/11   00:00:05
>26...Re6 27.Bf5 Re5
>  ±  (1.38)   Depth: 3/11   00:00:05
>26...Re6 27.Bd5 Rd6 28.Rd1
>  +-  (1.51)   Depth: 4/12   00:00:05
>26...Rb8 27.Bf5 Rd4 28.Qc2
>  +-  (1.41)   Depth: 4/12   00:00:05
>26...Re8 27.f3 Qe5 28.Bg6
>  ±  (1.30)   Depth: 4/12   00:00:05
>26...Re8 27.Bf5 Ne5 28.Qxc5 Nf3+ 29.Kf1 Nxg1 30.Kxg1
>  +-  (1.77)   Depth: 5/16   00:00:06
>26...Rb8 27.Bf5 Ne5 28.Qxc5 Nf3+ 29.Kf1 Nxg1 30.Kxg1
>  +-  (1.67)   Depth: 5/16   00:00:06
>26...Re6 27.Bf5 Re5 28.Qf4 Nb8
>  +-  (1.53)   Depth: 5/16   00:00:06
>26...Re6 27.f3 Rc8 28.a6 Ne5 29.Bxf6 Qxf6
>  +-  (1.63)   Depth: 6/16   00:00:06  170kN
>26...Re8 27.Bf5 Ne5 28.Qf4 c4 29.Kf1
>  +-  (1.59)   Depth: 6/16   00:00:06  241kN
>26...Re8 27.Bf5 Ne5 28.Qf4 c4 29.Bxf6 Qxf6 30.Kf1
>  ±  (1.20)   Depth: 7/18   00:00:07  469kN
>26...Re8 27.Bf5 Ne5 28.Qe2 c4 29.Kf1 Ra6 30.Bh6
>  ±  (1.34)   Depth: 8/20   00:00:08  943kN
>26...Re8 27.Bc2 Rd4 28.Qe2 c4 29.Bh6 g6 30.Bf5 Kh7
>  +-  (1.42)   Depth: 9/22   00:00:16  4792kN
>26...Ne5 27.Qc3 Rd2 28.Bxf6 Qxf6 29.Rg2 Qd6 30.Kf1 Rc8 31.Kg1
>  ±  (1.20)   Depth: 9/22   00:00:26  9389kN
>26...Ne5 27.Qc2 Rd2 28.Bh7+ Kh8 29.Qf5 Qd7 30.Qxd7 R8xd7 31.Bf5 Nf3+ 32.Kf1 Rd1+
>33.Rxd1 Rxd1+ 34.Ke2 Rxg1 35.Bxf6 Nxh2
>  ±  (0.89)   Depth: 10/26   00:00:50  20084kN
>26...Ne5 27.Qc2 Rd2 28.Bh7+ Kh8 29.Qf5 Qd7 30.Qxd7 R8xd7 31.Bf5 Nf3+ 32.Kf1 Rd1+
>33.Rxd1 Rxd1+ 34.Ke2 Rxg1 35.Bxf6 Nxh2
>  ²  (0.49)   Depth: 11/30   00:01:22  33682kN
>26...Ne5 27.Qb3 Rd2 28.Rg2 Qd6 29.Bxf6 Qxf6 30.Kf1 Qa6+ 31.Kg1 Qxa5 32.Ra1 c4
>  ²  (0.38)   Depth: 11/30   00:02:29  64074kN
>26...Ne5 27.Qb3 c4 28.Qb1 Qe6 29.Bxf6 Qxf6 30.Rg3 Nd3+ 31.Bxd3 cxd3 32.Rc7 Re6
>33.Qd1 Rd4
>  =  (-0.01)   Depth: 12/31   00:04:19  112622kN
>
>(Blass, Tel-aviv 26.08.2001)
>
>
>>I'm sure game would have been ended soon anyway as
>>crafty always has problems with its king and tactical it's just
>>not at the same level.
>
>I am sure of nothing.
>crafty needs 9389 Knodes to find Ne5 and I suspect that it has chances to find
>it in blitz.
>
>Uri


On my quad, it finds Ne5 after 8 seconds.  Score = +1.20 at depth=9.  By
depth=11, the score is near to zero.  Diep might have said +2, but it was
well on the way to losing this game and didn't have a clue.

Diep is not the tactical monster Vincent thinks, in every case.  Here it
seems to simply misunderstand the position.  At depth=12, Crafty thinks
black is better after Ne5.  And the score gets better and better each
iteration.

I have no idea what happened in the game, as if Michel used winboard then
blitz is a real problem since it is not easy to take back erroneous moves.
I _always_ operate in text mode and have no such problems.  But you do have
to be a good typer and understand the game well enough to read/make and see/type
moves very quickly to avoid getting killed on time.



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