Author: Peter Fendrich
Date: 07:23:26 05/14/98
Go up one level in this thread
On May 14, 1998 at 08:01:55, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >On May 13, 1998 at 13:54:13, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On May 13, 1998 at 11:55:37, Amir Ban wrote: >> >>>On May 13, 1998 at 08:00:40, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Big surprise was that Diep played so well in blitz in Paris, >>> >>>[snip] >>> >>>>Against Junior diep had a totally won >>>>position, but then diep searched 5 seconds for a move, played it and >>>>lost. at second 6 it would have gotten a fail low. 6 ply ain't enough to >>>>see tactically everything. But in that position 6 ply would have been >>>>enough >>>>to win it. >>> >>> >>>Vincent, I'm real busy now. Why do I have to waste time to correct your >>>statements ? >>> >>>The Paris game Diep-Junior is below. Diep plays 32.Qc1 and loses >>>immediately. It has better moves (say R1a5 or Rxb7), but this gives >>>white equality at best. I'll take black here anytime. >>> >>>Pity Qc1 didn't work out. It was a real crushing move ! I'm a bit >>>puzzled how you managed to play it. I looked what level I need to find >>>32...Nd3 and I find it in depth 1. Perhaps I can find it in quiescence >>>only. If you can't avoid such moves in 5 seconds, I suggest a major >>>redesign of your program. >>> >>> >>>[Event "?"] >>>[Site "?"] >>>[Date "?"] >>>[Round "5"] >>>[White "Diep"] >>>[Black "Junior"] >>>[Result "0-1"] >>>[ECO "?"] >>> >>>1. d4 d5 2. a3 Bf5 3. Bf4 e6 4. e3 Bd6 5. Ne2 Ne7 6. Nd2 Nbc6 >>>7. c4 O-O 8. Bg3 a5 9. c5 Bxg3 10. hxg3 Qd7 11. Nf3 b6 12. Rc1 Rfb8 >>>13. Qd2 b5 14. Nf4 a4 15. Bd3 h6 16. Bxf5 exf5 17. Qe2 b4 18. axb4 Rxb4 >>>19. Ra1 Qc8 20. Nd3 Rbb8 21. Ra3 Qe8 22. Qc2 Nb4 23. Nxb4 Rxb4 24. O-O >>>Qb5 >>>25. Rb1 Rb8 26. Qd1 Nc6 27. Nh4 g6 28. Rba1 Rxb2 29. Rxa4 Kh7 30. Ra6 >>>Nb4 >>>31. Ra7 Rb7 32. Qc1 Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. c6 Qb6 35. Qf1 Nxf2 36. Qe1 >>>Ng4 >>>37. Qc1 Qb3 38. Qe1 Nxe3 39. Kh1 Qd3 40. Nf3 Rxg2 41. Qxe3 Qxe3 42. Kxg2 >>>Qe2 >>>43. Kh3 Qxf3 44. Kh2 Qf2 45. Kh1 Qxg3 46. Rf1 f4 47. Ra1 Qf3 48. Kg1 Qe3 >>>49. Kh1 Qe4 50. Kh2 Qe2 51. Kh1 f3 0-1 >>> >>> >>>Amir >> >> >> >>I agree. My "broken quiescence search" (Vincent's words, not mine) >>finds >>this as follows, after white's move 32: >> depth time score variation (1) >> 1 0.00 0.24 32. ... Nd3 >> 1-> 0.00 0.24 32. ... Nd3 >> 2 0.00 0.44 32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 >> 2 0.00 0.47 32. ... Rxa7 33. Qxb2 Rxa1+ 34. Qxa1 >> 2-> 0.01 0.47 32. ... Rxa7 33. Qxb2 Rxa1+ 34. Qxa1 >> 3 0.04 0.68 32. ... Rxa7 33. Rxa7 Qe2 34. Qf1 >> 3-> 0.08 0.68 32. ... Rxa7 33. Rxa7 Qe2 34. Qf1 >> 4 0.09 0.44 32. ... Rxa7 33. Qxb2 Rxa1+ 34. Qxa1 >> Kh8 35. Nf3 >> 4-> 0.13 0.44 32. ... Rxa7 33. Qxb2 Rxa1+ 34. Qxa1 >> Kh8 35. Nf3 >> 5 0.21 -- 32. ... Rxa7 >> 5 0.25 0.14 32. ... Rxa7 33. Rxa7 Qe2 34. Qf1 >>Qxf1+ >> 35. Kxf1 Rb1+ 36. Ke2 Rb2+ 37. Kf3 >> 5 0.29 ++ 32. ... Nd3!! >> 5 0.30 1.64 32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. Qf1 > >You need 5 ply to see Nd3 winning. >Diep searched 5 ply starting with 6 in Paris. > >Nowadays it gets it within 2 seconds, but that's of no use. >The most important blitz contest last year Junior won against Diep. > >It's interesting to see how Diep can get with 5 ply searches, sometimes >6 ply searches such a position against Junior, getting way deeper. > >The depth of Junior always amazes me, just like genius depth (although >genius does only print out its positional depth, it seems to see 2 ply >more). > >>Nxf2 >> 35. Nf3 >> 5-> 0.40 1.64 32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. Qf1 >>Nxf2 >> 35. Nf3 >> 6 0.47 1.77 32. ... Nd3 33. Qc3 Nxf2 34. Nf3 >>Rxa7 >> 35. Rxa7 Ne4 >> 6-> 0.61 1.77 32. ... Nd3 33. Qc3 Nxf2 34. Nf3 >>Rxa7 >> 35. Rxa7 Ne4 >> 7 0.74 1.68 32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. Qf1 >>Nxf2 >> 35. Nf3 Ne4 36. Kh2 >> 7-> 0.94 1.68 32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. Qf1 >>Nxf2 >> 35. Nf3 Ne4 36. Kh2 >> 8 1.15 1.82 32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. Qf1 >>Nxf2 >> 35. Nf3 Ne4 36. Kh2 Qc6 >> 8-> 1.44 1.82 32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. Qf1 >>Nxf2 >> 35. Nf3 Ne4 36. Kh2 Qc6 >> 9 1.80 1.84 32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. Qf1 >>Nxf2 >> 35. Nf3 Qb3 36. Qc1 c6 37. Qe1 >> 9-> 2.42 1.84 32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. Qf1 >>Nxf2 >> 35. Nf3 Qb3 36. Qc1 c6 37. Qe1 >> 10 3.20 ++ 32. ... Nd3!! >> 10-> 4.89 2.13 32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. Qf1 >>Nxf2 >> 35. Nf3 Qb3 36. Qc1 c6 37. Qe1 >> 11 7.09 2.33 32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. c6 Qb3 >> 35. Qf1 Nxf2 36. Qe1 Qb5 37. Qc1 Qe2 >> 38. Nf3 >> 11-> 10.08 2.33 32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. c6 Qb3 >> 35. Qf1 Nxf2 36. Qe1 Qb5 37. Qc1 Qe2 >> 38. Nf3 >> >> >>So it looks good at 1 ply, but turns *real* good after only .29 seconds. >>It doesn't take much to find that. If you don't in 5 seconds, something >>is seriously wrong... So what you're trying to say is that if your program was only a little bit better it might as well won the game? No problem with me... Peter
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