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Subject: Re: Some facts about Deep Thought / Deep Blue

Author: Bruce Moreland

Date: 15:43:39 08/30/01

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On August 30, 2001 at 15:30:59, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>I agree.  There are three positions someone can take on the DB issue.  I will
>list them and then pick the one I like:
>
>1.  DB sucks and is worse than today's micros.
>
>2.  DB is invincible and is so far above today's micros it is not worth
>    discussing.
>
>3.  There is ample evidence that older versions of the thing were invincible
>    when they were playing.  And the newest version did something nobody else
>    has repeated, yet (beating Kasparov in a match).  This leads me to believe
>    that they certainly are ahead of today's machines, until one of today's
>    machines shows some evidence of catching up to them.
>
>I fall in category 3 above.  Several fall in category 1.  Category 2 isn't
>really worth talking about.  I would personally be just as happy as anything
>if the (1) group would just remain silent.  Because (1) is not supportable by
>any evidence other than prejudice.  I think there is a lot to be learned from
>the machine, and it will be learned over time...

There are some people in and around this field who are in the first camp.  These
people will waste your time if allowed.  Please don't accuse me with these
people.

I think that your third category is also too much of a stretch.  You are trying
to extrapolate along too many axes.

Older versions of DB were not invincible.  The thing in Hong Kong lost a point
and a half playing against micros running on 100 mhz Pentiums.

The Kasparov match was very weird and I don't think it makes sense to take
anything from that.  If there were more data-points against humans, it might
make sense to make conclusions about that, but we have none.

I think it is logical to suspect that DB would be very strong against modern
micros on modern hardware.  But lack of *any* concrete evidence precludes any
conclusion.

IBM would have you believe that this event had something to do with science, but
it had nothing at all to do with science.  It was a giant publicity stunt, and
once they got what they wanted they weren't willing to do even one tiny bit of
science with the thing.  No data came out of that project.  All that it
generated was PR.

I refuse to even entertain the notion that it's a good idea to use science or
math or logic to somehow manufacture evidence that can be used in order to
proclaim them as permanent kings of the computer chess world.  They could have
provided a huge amount of data in a single afternoon, but instead they provided
nothing.

What should be concrete and provable is turned into a matter of religion, where
nothing is provable and everything must be taken on faith.

This is not how science is supposed to work, and scientists are not supposed to
condone that kind of crap.

IBM dicked over this field, all because they wanted to save money that would
have otherwise been spent on a single commercial shown during the Super Bowl.

bruce



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