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Subject: Re: Which is strongest tactical, and which is strongest knowledge programs?

Author: Chessfun

Date: 14:44:33 09/02/01

Go up one level in this thread


On September 02, 2001 at 17:30:33, Uri Blass wrote:

>On September 02, 2001 at 14:56:45, Chessfun wrote:
>
>>On September 02, 2001 at 08:59:43, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On September 02, 2001 at 07:59:22, stuart taylor wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 02, 2001 at 05:10:46, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 02, 2001 at 04:53:31, Steve Maughan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>IMHO, if it's tactics you're trying to spot then you should use: Fritz, Goliath,
>>>>>>ChessMaster possibly Nimzo.  For positional analysis, Shredder, Junior 7 and
>>>>>>Tiger.  For all round play I like Gambit Tiger and Junior 7.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>I believe that Deep Fritz is the best.
>>>>>I believe that Deep Fritz is the best in tactics except finding
>>>>>mates(chessmaster is the best in this task)
>>>>>
>>>>>I believe that Deep fritz is in similiar level to other engines in
>>>>>positional understanding and there are cases when it is better and
>>>>>cases when it is worse.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>Uri,
>>>>So you don't agree about Golliath.
>>>>
>>>>And you say that Gambit Tiger is not exactly the very best in tactics alone or
>>>>in positional understanding alone, even if it will top the next ssdf list (i.e.
>>>>wins slightly more games)?
>>>>What then is the additional ingredient that (it seems) GT might have?
>>>>S.Taylor
>>>
>>>1)If gambittiger can top the ssdf then I may change my mind.
>>
>>Looking at it's current score v Junior 7 and Shredder 5.32
>>it's totally possible it will top the next list.
>>But why should it's position relative to #1 or #2 on the SSDF
>>influence your opinion?.
>
>Data may influence my opinion.
>The difference between the first place and the second place may be also
>important for my opinion.

The current difference is 3 rating points.
I don't see how a gain of 4 points for Gambit could influence
an opinion.

>>>2)I believe that one of the advantages of gambittiger relative to
>>>Deep Fritz is better time management.
>>
>>Please explain as this is something I always felt opposite about.
>>
>>Sarah.
>
>2 reasons:
>1)I know that Deep Fritz has a tendency to play faster when it gets a big
>advantage and I believe it is not a good descision.

When it gets a big advantage? do you have examples
of where this has caused it to lose or draw?.

>I remember a game that was posted here(If I remember correctly by sune larson)
>and in that game Deep Fritz lost when I found that it did a mistake because of
>bad time management.

Agh never saw that post.
I'll email Sune for the game.

>The game was based on the opening from the game insomniac-shredder in the last
>ICC tournament.

>I believe that the decision of Fritz to play faster when it has advantage is
>a compromise of Fritz's programmers in order to make the customers more happy.

That hardly makes sense to me, and I doubt that making the program
play faster knowing that would affect it's result would cause a programmer
to do that.

>I can explain it.
>I believe that Deep Fritz cannot earn more than 5 elo points from not playing
>faster when it gets a clear advantage.
>
>I believe that customers may become angry when they see a program calculates for
>a long time in a clearly winning position.

But as you say if all others are doing so why worry about it.

>It is not only for human-computer games but also for engine-engine games
>because if engine-engine games takes more time the customers can see less games.

Again I can't see the reasoning when and if, Deep Fritz was the only
program of the two playing faster.

>2)I know that Christophe worked on improving the time management of tiger and I
>believe that he knows what he is doing and tiger is using time better than
>most programs(I understood that tiger uses time in a different way than other
>programs).

>I remmeber that christhophe said that he is afraid that other operators are
>going to change tiger's time management and he is 99% sure that the change is
>going to be counter productive.

Tiger's time usage is really very good. A lot of this I believe was as a result
of Christophe working on it especially after using it on the internet servers.

To me though at times what I see is Tiger spending not enough time in the
opening or early middlegame. Though again as you say maybe in both cases
this is worth less than 5 rating points.

Sarah.





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