Author: Eelco de Groot
Date: 19:18:21 09/03/01
Go up one level in this thread
On September 03, 2001 at 16:19:34, Eduard Nemeth wrote: >On September 03, 2001 at 15:57:14, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On September 03, 2001 at 14:50:27, Eduard Nemeth wrote: >> >>>I played a game against Tiger 14 today (120'/40 Level), see my post "Golden >>>eyes", and Tiger thinking and thinking...but makes bad moves. Ok, this first >>>game was a HARD tactical position for computers. >>> >>>I played now an another game against Tiger 14 and I played the NORMAL "Two >>>Kings" variation. But what makes Tiger? He played after 15 minutes (!) on a BAD >>>move. I can this not understand, sorry! >> >>I believe that the main problem of tiger here is >>the fact that tiger is a preprocessor. >> >>If you compare the evaluation after 12.Nf6+ gxf6 and the evaluation >>after 12.gxf3 Ne7 you can see that tiger's evaluation is better after >>12.gxf3 Ne7 and not after 12.Nf6+ gxf6 but tiger cannot see >>it's evaluation after these moves in the root position. >> >>Tiger14's analysis after 12.Nf6+ gxf6 >>Chess Tiger 14.0 - Blass,U >>[D]r3k2r/ppp1Bp1p/2n2p2/7q/3p4/5b2/PPP2PPP/R2QR1K1 w kq - 0 1 >> >>Analysis by Chess Tiger 14.0: >> >>13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kh1 Rg6 17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Re4 >> = (-0.12) Depth: 8 00:00:00 94kN >>13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kf1 Rg6 17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Bg3 Nb4 19.Re2 >> = (-0.18) Depth: 9 00:00:00 195kN >>13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kf1 Rg6 17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Bg3 Nb4 19.Re2 >> = (-0.18) Depth: 10 00:00:02 509kN >>13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kh1 Rg6 17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Rad1 a6 19.Bg3 >>h6 20.Re4 >> = (-0.06) Depth: 11 00:00:04 1171kN >>13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kh1 Rg6 17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Rad1 f6 19.Re3 >>f5 20.f4 >> = (-0.10) Depth: 12 00:00:10 2554kN >>13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kh1 Rg6 17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Rad1 a6 19.Bg3 >>h6 20.Kg2 f5 21.Re3 >> = (0.00) Depth: 13 00:00:24 6135kN >> >>(Blass, Tel-aviv 03.09.2001) >> >> >>Tiger14's analysis after 12.gxf3 Ne7 >>Chess Tiger 14.0 - Blass,U >>[D]r3k2r/ppp1nppp/8/7q/3pN3/5P2/PPP2P1P/R2QR1K1 w kq - 0 1 >> >>Analysis by Chess Tiger 14.0: >> >>13.Qxd4 0-0 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 Qxf3 16.Rxc7 Rac8 >> = (0.10) Depth: 8 00:00:00 87kN >>13.Qxd4 0-0 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 Qxf3 16.Rxc7 Rac8 17.Qd7 Rxc7 18.Qxc7 >> = (0.10) Depth: 8 00:00:00 136kN >>13.Qxd4 0-0 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 Qxf3 16.Rae1 Qc6 17.Qg4+ Kh8 18.Qf5 >> ² (0.54) Depth: 9 00:00:04 849kN >>13.Qxd4 0-0 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 Qxf3 16.Rae1 Kh8 17.Qe4 Rg8+ 18.Kf1 Qh3+ 19.Ke2 >> ² (0.26) Depth: 10 00:00:05 1144kN >>13.Qxd4 0-0 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 Qxf3 16.Qd3 Qxd3 17.cxd3 Rac8 18.Rc1 Rfe8 >>19.Rcxc7 Rxc7 20.Rxc7 >> ² (0.34) Depth: 11 00:00:10 2169kN >>13.Qxd4 0-0 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 Qxf3 16.Qd3 Qxd3 17.cxd3 Rac8 18.Rc1 Rfe8 >>19.Rcxc7 Rxc7 20.Rxc7 >> ² (0.34) Depth: 12 00:00:18 3899kN >>13.Qxd4 0-0 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 Qxf3 16.Qd3 Qxd3 17.cxd3 Rac8 18.Rc1 Rfe8 >>19.Rcxc7 Rxc7 20.Rxe8+ Kg7 21.d4 >> ² (0.32) Depth: 13 00:00:40 8741kN >> >>(Blass, Tel-aviv 03.09.2001) >> >>Uri > >I see this. nevertheless is my opinion that for move 12 (after 15 minutes!) >a program must another play and NOT Nf6+, and the score > +0.60 is FANTASY! A score of +0.60 does seem rather high. Just some dull computer output here from Rebel personality Q5T, also plays 12.gxf3 even if it temporarily thinks that 12.Qd3 is a better move. [Event ""] [Site ""] [Date ""] [Round ""] [White ""] [Black ""] [Result ""] 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.O-O Nxe4 6.Re1 d5 7.Bxd5 Qxd5 8.Nc3 Qh5 9.Nxe4 Be7 10.Bg5 Bg4 11.Bxe7 Bxf3 * Last Move : 11... Bxf3 (White to play) 00:00 03.00 0.19 12.Nd6+ cxd6 13.Qxf3 Qxf3 14.Bg5+ Kd7 15.gxf3+ 00:00 05.00 -0.09 12.Nd6+ cxd6 13.Qxf3 Qxf3 14.Bg5+ Kd7 15.gxf3+ Rae8 00:01 06.00 -0.35 12.Nd6+ Kd7 13.Qxf3 Qxf3 14.gxf3 Nxe7 15.Nxb7 c6 16.Nc5+ Kd6 00:02 06.03 0.10 12.gxf3 Nxe7 13.Qxd4 O-O 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 00:03 06.12 0.11 12.Qd3 Nxe7 13.Ng3 Qg4 14.gxf3 Qd7 00:04 07.00 0.42 12.Qd3 Nxe7 13.Ng3 Qg4 14.gxf3 Qh4 15.Qb5 Kf8 00:09 08.00 0.36 12.Qd3 Bxg2 13.Bf6 Qg4 14.Ng3+ Kf8 15.Bxg7 Qxg7 16.Qa3+ 00:23 09.00 0.22 12.Qd3 Bxg2 13.Bf6 Qg6 14.Nd6+ Kf8 15.Qxg6 hxg6 16.Kxg2 gxf6 17.Nxb7 00:26 09.01 0.32 12.gxf3 Nxe7 13.Qxd4 O-O 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 Qxf3 16.Rae1 Rfd8 00:57 10.00 0.48 12.gxf3 Nxe7 13.Qxd4 Kf8 14.Qd7 Re8 15.Qxc7 Qxf3 16.Qxb7 02:52 11.00 0.28 12.gxf3 Nxe7 13.Qxd4 O-O 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 Rae8 16.Rxc7 Re5 04:19 11.01 0.28 12.Qd3 05:02 11.01 0.70 12.Qd3 Bxg2 13.Ba3 Bxe4 14.Rxe4+ Kd8 15.Rae1 f5 18:03 12.00 0.54 12.Qd3 Bxg2 13.Bc5 Bxe4 14.Rxe4+ Kd8 15.Bxd4 21:44 12.01 0.64 12.gxf3 Nxe7 13.Qxd4 O-O 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 Rfe8 16.Rae1 Rxe7 After 12.Nf6 Black is now up to +0.38, so -0.38 for White, a difference of about a pawn compared with the alternative 12.gxf3. So probably it is not a speculative evaluation from Tiger but something else? Last Move : 12.Nf6+ (Black to play) 00:00 02.00 -0.01 12..gxf6 13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 00:00 04.00 0.28 12..gxf6 13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3+ Rhg8+ 16.Kf1 Rg6 17.Bh4 00:02 05.00 0.57 12..gxf6 13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kh1 Rg6 17.Be5 Rag8 00:04 06.00 0.52 12..gxf6 13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kf1 Rg6 17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Rad1 00:14 07.00 0.45 12..gxf6 13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kh1 Rg6 17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Rad1 00:39 08.00 0.66 12..gxf6 13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kh1 Rg6 17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Rad1 02:00 09.00 0.49 12..gxf6 13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3+ Rhg8+ 16.Kh1 Rg6 17.Bh4 Nb4 18.Re7+ Kd6 19.Rc1 06:07 10.00 0.50 12..gxf6 13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kf1 Rg6 17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Rad1 Rg1+ 19.Ke2 Rxe1+ 20.Kxe1 a5 21.Bg3 20:07 11.00 0.38 12..gxf6 13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kh1 Rg6 17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Rad1 Regards, Eelco > >this is now real: > >Neue Stellung > >[D]r5r1/pppk1p1p/2n2B2/8/3p4/5P2/PPP2P1P/R3R1K1 w - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Chess Tiger 14.0: > >11.Kf1 Tg6 2.Lh4 Tag8 3.Lg3 Sb4 4.Tad1 c5 5.c3 Sc6 6.cxd4 cxd4 7.Ke2 Ke6 8.Kd3+ >Kd5 9.a3 f5 > = (-0.14) Tiefe: 16 00:03:00 29677kN >1.Kf1 Tg6 2.Lh4 Tag8 3.Ted1 h5 4.Lg3 Kc8 5.Tac1 f5 6.h4 f4 7.Lxf4 Tf6 8.Lg3 Txf3 >9.Ke2 > = (-0.20) Tiefe: 17 00:07:04 72212kN > >Eduard
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