Author: Eduard Nemeth
Date: 21:35:44 09/03/01
Go up one level in this thread
On September 03, 2001 at 22:18:21, Eelco de Groot wrote: >On September 03, 2001 at 16:19:34, Eduard Nemeth wrote: > >>On September 03, 2001 at 15:57:14, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On September 03, 2001 at 14:50:27, Eduard Nemeth wrote: >>> >>>>I played a game against Tiger 14 today (120'/40 Level), see my post "Golden >>>>eyes", and Tiger thinking and thinking...but makes bad moves. Ok, this first >>>>game was a HARD tactical position for computers. >>>> >>>>I played now an another game against Tiger 14 and I played the NORMAL "Two >>>>Kings" variation. But what makes Tiger? He played after 15 minutes (!) on a BAD >>>>move. I can this not understand, sorry! >>> >>>I believe that the main problem of tiger here is >>>the fact that tiger is a preprocessor. >>> >>>If you compare the evaluation after 12.Nf6+ gxf6 and the evaluation >>>after 12.gxf3 Ne7 you can see that tiger's evaluation is better after >>>12.gxf3 Ne7 and not after 12.Nf6+ gxf6 but tiger cannot see >>>it's evaluation after these moves in the root position. >>> >>>Tiger14's analysis after 12.Nf6+ gxf6 >>>Chess Tiger 14.0 - Blass,U >>>[D]r3k2r/ppp1Bp1p/2n2p2/7q/3p4/5b2/PPP2PPP/R2QR1K1 w kq - 0 1 >>> >>>Analysis by Chess Tiger 14.0: >>> >>>13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kh1 Rg6 17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Re4 >>> = (-0.12) Depth: 8 00:00:00 94kN >>>13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kf1 Rg6 17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Bg3 Nb4 19.Re2 >>> = (-0.18) Depth: 9 00:00:00 195kN >>>13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kf1 Rg6 17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Bg3 Nb4 19.Re2 >>> = (-0.18) Depth: 10 00:00:02 509kN >>>13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kh1 Rg6 17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Rad1 a6 19.Bg3 >>>h6 20.Re4 >>> = (-0.06) Depth: 11 00:00:04 1171kN >>>13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kh1 Rg6 17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Rad1 f6 19.Re3 >>>f5 20.f4 >>> = (-0.10) Depth: 12 00:00:10 2554kN >>>13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kh1 Rg6 17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Rad1 a6 19.Bg3 >>>h6 20.Kg2 f5 21.Re3 >>> = (0.00) Depth: 13 00:00:24 6135kN >>> >>>(Blass, Tel-aviv 03.09.2001) >>> >>> >>>Tiger14's analysis after 12.gxf3 Ne7 >>>Chess Tiger 14.0 - Blass,U >>>[D]r3k2r/ppp1nppp/8/7q/3pN3/5P2/PPP2P1P/R2QR1K1 w kq - 0 1 >>> >>>Analysis by Chess Tiger 14.0: >>> >>>13.Qxd4 0-0 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 Qxf3 16.Rxc7 Rac8 >>> = (0.10) Depth: 8 00:00:00 87kN >>>13.Qxd4 0-0 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 Qxf3 16.Rxc7 Rac8 17.Qd7 Rxc7 18.Qxc7 >>> = (0.10) Depth: 8 00:00:00 136kN >>>13.Qxd4 0-0 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 Qxf3 16.Rae1 Qc6 17.Qg4+ Kh8 18.Qf5 >>> ² (0.54) Depth: 9 00:00:04 849kN >>>13.Qxd4 0-0 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 Qxf3 16.Rae1 Kh8 17.Qe4 Rg8+ 18.Kf1 Qh3+ 19.Ke2 >>> ² (0.26) Depth: 10 00:00:05 1144kN >>>13.Qxd4 0-0 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 Qxf3 16.Qd3 Qxd3 17.cxd3 Rac8 18.Rc1 Rfe8 >>>19.Rcxc7 Rxc7 20.Rxc7 >>> ² (0.34) Depth: 11 00:00:10 2169kN >>>13.Qxd4 0-0 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 Qxf3 16.Qd3 Qxd3 17.cxd3 Rac8 18.Rc1 Rfe8 >>>19.Rcxc7 Rxc7 20.Rxc7 >>> ² (0.34) Depth: 12 00:00:18 3899kN >>>13.Qxd4 0-0 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 Qxf3 16.Qd3 Qxd3 17.cxd3 Rac8 18.Rc1 Rfe8 >>>19.Rcxc7 Rxc7 20.Rxe8+ Kg7 21.d4 >>> ² (0.32) Depth: 13 00:00:40 8741kN >>> >>>(Blass, Tel-aviv 03.09.2001) >>> >>>Uri >> >>I see this. nevertheless is my opinion that for move 12 (after 15 minutes!) >>a program must another play and NOT Nf6+, and the score > +0.60 is FANTASY! > >A score of +0.60 does seem rather high. Just some dull computer output here from >Rebel personality Q5T, also plays 12.gxf3 even if it temporarily thinks that >12.Qd3 is a better move. > > >[Event ""] >[Site ""] >[Date ""] >[Round ""] >[White ""] >[Black ""] >[Result ""] > >1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.O-O Nxe4 >6.Re1 d5 7.Bxd5 Qxd5 8.Nc3 Qh5 9.Nxe4 Be7 10.Bg5 Bg4 >11.Bxe7 Bxf3 * > > >Last Move : 11... Bxf3 (White to play) > >00:00 03.00 0.19 12.Nd6+ cxd6 13.Qxf3 Qxf3 14.Bg5+ Kd7 15.gxf3+ >00:00 05.00 -0.09 12.Nd6+ cxd6 13.Qxf3 Qxf3 14.Bg5+ Kd7 15.gxf3+ Rae8 >00:01 06.00 -0.35 12.Nd6+ Kd7 13.Qxf3 Qxf3 14.gxf3 Nxe7 15.Nxb7 c6 16.Nc5+ >Kd6 >00:02 06.03 0.10 12.gxf3 Nxe7 13.Qxd4 O-O 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 >00:03 06.12 0.11 12.Qd3 Nxe7 13.Ng3 Qg4 14.gxf3 Qd7 >00:04 07.00 0.42 12.Qd3 Nxe7 13.Ng3 Qg4 14.gxf3 Qh4 15.Qb5 Kf8 >00:09 08.00 0.36 12.Qd3 Bxg2 13.Bf6 Qg4 14.Ng3+ Kf8 15.Bxg7 Qxg7 16.Qa3+ >00:23 09.00 0.22 12.Qd3 Bxg2 13.Bf6 Qg6 14.Nd6+ Kf8 15.Qxg6 hxg6 16.Kxg2 gxf6 >17.Nxb7 >00:26 09.01 0.32 12.gxf3 Nxe7 13.Qxd4 O-O 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 Qxf3 16.Rae1 >Rfd8 >00:57 10.00 0.48 12.gxf3 Nxe7 13.Qxd4 Kf8 14.Qd7 Re8 15.Qxc7 Qxf3 16.Qxb7 >02:52 11.00 0.28 12.gxf3 Nxe7 13.Qxd4 O-O 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 Rae8 16.Rxc7 >Re5 >04:19 11.01 0.28 12.Qd3 >05:02 11.01 0.70 12.Qd3 Bxg2 13.Ba3 Bxe4 14.Rxe4+ Kd8 15.Rae1 f5 >18:03 12.00 0.54 12.Qd3 Bxg2 13.Bc5 Bxe4 14.Rxe4+ Kd8 15.Bxd4 >21:44 12.01 0.64 12.gxf3 Nxe7 13.Qxd4 O-O 14.Nf6+ gxf6 15.Rxe7 Rfe8 16.Rae1 >Rxe7 > >After 12.Nf6 Black is now up to +0.38, so -0.38 for White, a difference of about >a pawn compared with the alternative 12.gxf3. So probably it is not a >speculative evaluation from Tiger but something else? > >Last Move : 12.Nf6+ (Black to play) > >00:00 02.00 -0.01 12..gxf6 13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 >00:00 04.00 0.28 12..gxf6 13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3+ Rhg8+ 16.Kf1 Rg6 >17.Bh4 >00:02 05.00 0.57 12..gxf6 13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kh1 Rg6 >17.Be5 Rag8 >00:04 06.00 0.52 12..gxf6 13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kf1 Rg6 >17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Rad1 >00:14 07.00 0.45 12..gxf6 13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kh1 Rg6 >17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Rad1 >00:39 08.00 0.66 12..gxf6 13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kh1 Rg6 >17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Rad1 >02:00 09.00 0.49 12..gxf6 13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3+ Rhg8+ 16.Kh1 Rg6 >17.Bh4 Nb4 18.Re7+ Kd6 19.Rc1 >06:07 10.00 0.50 12..gxf6 13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kf1 Rg6 >17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Rad1 Rg1+ 19.Ke2 Rxe1+ 20.Kxe1 a5 21.Bg3 >20:07 11.00 0.38 12..gxf6 13.Bxf6+ Kd7 14.Qxf3 Qxf3 15.gxf3 Rhg8+ 16.Kh1 Rg6 >17.Bh4 Rag8 18.Rad1 > >Regards, Eelco > Thanks! But, when everyone against me play Sf6+? so I'm very HAPPY! :) Afer this last line her tha Analysis from Fritz 6 on a P600: [D]6r1/pppk1p1p/2n3r1/8/3p3B/5P2/PPP2P1P/3RR2K b - - 0 1 Analysis by Fritz 6c: 18...Kc8 19.c3 dxc3 20.bxc3 b5 21.f4 a5 22.f5 Tg4 23.Tg1 µ (-0.75) Tiefe: 14/29 00:00:23 10514kN 18...Kc8 19.c3 dxc3 20.bxc3 b5 21.f4 a6 22.f5 Td6 23.Txd6 µ (-0.75) Tiefe: 15/31 00:00:45 20958kN 18...Kc8 19.c3 dxc3 20.bxc3 b5 21.f4 h6 22.f5 Tg4 23.Lg3 ³ (-0.69) Tiefe: 16/31 00:01:22 38787kN 18...Kc8 19.c3 dxc3 20.bxc3 b5 21.f4 a6 22.f5 Tg4 23.Lg3 ³ (-0.69) Tiefe: 17/35 00:03:03 86712kN (Nemeth, Stuttgart 04.09.2001) >> >>this is now real: >> >>Neue Stellung >> >>[D]r5r1/pppk1p1p/2n2B2/8/3p4/5P2/PPP2P1P/R3R1K1 w - - 0 1 >> >>Analysis by Chess Tiger 14.0: >> >>11.Kf1 Tg6 2.Lh4 Tag8 3.Lg3 Sb4 4.Tad1 c5 5.c3 Sc6 6.cxd4 cxd4 7.Ke2 Ke6 8.Kd3+ >>Kd5 9.a3 f5 >> = (-0.14) Tiefe: 16 00:03:00 29677kN >>1.Kf1 Tg6 2.Lh4 Tag8 3.Ted1 h5 4.Lg3 Kc8 5.Tac1 f5 6.h4 f4 7.Lxf4 Tf6 8.Lg3 Txf3 >>9.Ke2 >> = (-0.20) Tiefe: 17 00:07:04 72212kN >> >>Eduard
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