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Subject: Re: ICGA_J (June) self-play information

Author: Adam Oellermann

Date: 05:34:51 09/05/01

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On September 05, 2001 at 07:53:50, guy haworth wrote:

>
>In the Ken-Thompson-themed ICGA Journal (June, 2001), Ernst Heinz published his
>latest self-play experiment results.
>
>Engines with different guaranteed-depth(?)-parameters were pitted against each
>other.
>
>The matches of the experimetn (3,000 games each) suggest that:
>
>  12-ply was  84 ELO points better than 11 ply
>  11-ply was  92 ELO points better than 10 ply
>  10-ply was 115 ELO points better than  9 ply
>
>Fairly strong indications of decreasing returns from increasing search.  No
>doubt a proper statistical analysis will follow.
>
>
>An extra ply seems to require 4-6 times the 'effective power', so a factor of 36
>- if realised across the system - is only 2 plies.
>
>On this basis, an engine might be some 160 ELO points better on hardware giving
>a power factor increase of 36.
>
>
>G

I guess the juicy part will not be just running a naive search two ply deeper,
but just imagine the heavy-duty stuff you could do in the eval with 70GHz and
still reach current NPS levels. I would suggest that depth increases of more
than 2 ply are to be expected because of reduced branching factor from
complicated eval stuff as well as better extensions in tactically alive
positions. I expect that people who currently have an advantage from
implementing in assembly will lose that edge - it'll just be too expensive to
keep implementing ever more complex eval/search logic in ASM.

As a result, I accept the argument about diminishing returns to depth, but I do
not agree with the notion of diminishing returns to hardware improvements -
mainly because heavier hardware lets you do heavier chess-specific knowledge
while still staying efficient.

I would be very interested to see some of the CCC illuminati's predictions as to
what the NPS of leading chess programs will be 5 years hence. For myself, I
predict that they won't go too far past 2m NPS, but they'll make it count a lot
more. I also hope that as a result anti-anti-computer chess will improve to the
point where a computer is a reasonable substitute for a strong human in
training.

- Adam



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