Author: leonid
Date: 10:04:47 09/06/01
Go up one level in this thread
On September 05, 2001 at 16:13:05, Heiner Marxen wrote: >On September 04, 2001 at 22:14:27, leonid wrote: > >>On September 04, 2001 at 20:51:23, Peter Berger wrote: >> >>>On September 04, 2001 at 19:16:29, leonid wrote: >>> >>>>Solution time is excellent! >>>> >>>>Chessmaster 8000 for sure found mate by selective and its selective search is >>>>very effective. But how about brute force search? I am curious to know how he do >>>>on this sense. >>>> >>>>To spot its brute force search (just my suggestion) find what is the Chessmater >>>>time for 8 moves for the first position and in 12 moves for the second. In both >>>>he will not find the mate but probably will end by searching by brute force. >>>> >>>>If you could indicate its brute force search for two close moves (for 7 and 8 >>>>moves deep, for instance) it will be very revealing. This will permit to see his >>>>branching factor for this kind of search. >>>> >>>>Some programs are very efficent in brute force search but not that tuned for >>>>selective. The best brute force searcher that I saw here until now was Heiner's >>>>mate solver. His time is close to miracle. >>>> >>>>Cheers, >>>>Leonid. >>>> >>> >>>Hi Leonid, >>> >>>to the best of my knowledge Chessmaster 8000 can't be set up to do a "brute >>>force search" by an ordinary user - don't forget : it isn't a mate solver but a >>>normal chess playing program. >> >>I remember that I tried on my own to find, in one previous version, if Chess >>Master was using "brute force" but never found direct indication about this in >>its description. It is good that you put this clear for me. >> >>Some programs do search of mate by brute force (at least it is my impression) >>even if they are not mate solvers. Between them I tried Genius 4, Rebel 10 and >>Mate 2.0. Some even indicate in their choice "selective search". >> >> >> >>>So Chessmaster's results are always "selective search". >>> >>>Chessmaster 8000 seems to be the best when it is about "selective search" so far >>>: if it is about your positions with zillions of queens and other pieces - or >>>more regular ones ( like in the chess newspapers) . >> >>This last was "normal". Too many pawns. I did this expecting that everybody, >>with every program will be able to solve them. Then I also will be able to see >>if mine could compete with usual program in "almost natural environment" . >> >>>Chest is without competition itself when it is about "brute force search " - I >>>definitely agree ! > >Hi Leonid, Hi Peter! My pleasure to see you again, Heiner! >Thanks for all the kind words! Good thing is that it is not so much "kind words" as recognition of your mate solver. > >>>Although it's not that bruce force at all - Heiner Marxen will use some neat >>>tricks to improve his "brute force" results : and my impression was that many of >>>them never would be thought of as brute force anyway . For example Chest does >>>pruning ( to my _very_ miserable understanding at least ) . >> >>This is big surprise for me! But this can be seen only by directly using his >>mate solver for solving many mate containing positions when shortest mate is >>known in advance. > >Well, in some sense Chest does some pruning, but if it does, Chest is >absolutely 100% sure that the pruned tree does not contain a forced mate. >Those prunings are "safe". > >E.g. when the white side (which has to deliver mate) is left with just one >piece except for the king, Chest knows that white must not loose that piece, >and will not try any move that leaves that piece at a square where it may >be captured by black. Logical but nothing like this in my program. >(That can become even more complex :-) > >The result will always be the same as for a complete "brute force" search, >although the method Chest uses to arrive there may be called "not brute force" >by some. For me it is a tuned version. > >>I hope that Heiner will be not that long in producing, finally, his mate solver >>with handy and friendly graphics. For me it will be best possible reference that >>could better suggest what practical limite in speed I can expect. Before I did a >>mistake by looking into few others, less speedy programs. > >Unfortunately, after a long illness now my disk completely broke down... >and some of my recent changes are lost :-( and almost all computations >done in the last year. Hrmpf. >I still hope to release something in December, or may be January. Heiner, probably you must buy, or look on those recent CD-RW. They are very affordable and very useful for saving. I read about one in todays newspaper and became very dreamy... The next spark on my work and I will buy it. This last have speed 16.10.24. Its price in US dollars is around $130. Cheers, Leonid.
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