Author: Uri Blass
Date: 12:35:37 09/06/01
Go up one level in this thread
On September 06, 2001 at 14:47:08, Sandro Necchi wrote:
>On September 06, 2001 at 03:14:19, Eduard Nemeth wrote:
>
>>On September 06, 2001 at 01:56:05, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On September 05, 2001 at 23:17:46, Eduard Nemeth wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 05, 2001 at 04:08:14, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 05, 2001 at 02:48:19, Eduard Nemeth wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Today the "Ruy Lopez-dance"!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>:-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>After move 3:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[D]r1bqkbnr/pppp1pp1/2n5/1B2p2p/4P3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQK2R w KQkq -
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[Event "Blitz30',P600,128MB"]
>>>>>>[Site "Stuttgart"]
>>>>>>[Date "2001.??.??"]
>>>>>>[Round "?"]
>>>>>>[White "Deep Shredder"]
>>>>>>[Black "Nemeth"]
>>>>>>[ECO "C60"]
>>>>>>[Result "0-1"]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1. e4 {Buch 0s} e5 {1s (c5)} 2. Nf3 {Buch 0s} Nc6 {9s}
>>>>>>3. Bb5 {Buch 1s} h5 {1s (a6)} 4. O-O {+0.91/12 38s} d6 {6s
>>>>>>(Sf6)} 5. d4 {+0.97/10 10s} Bg4 {13s (Ld7)} 6. dxe5
>>>>>>{+1.65/10 15s} Nh6 {14s (Dd7)} 7. h3 {+2.37/10 33s} g6 {9s
>>>>>>(Ld7)} 8. hxg4 {+2.71/11 42s} hxg4 {4s} 9. Qd5 {+6.12/11
>>>>>>38s} Bg7 {3s} 10. Nd4 {+6.25/11 1:10m} Qh4 {5s (O-O)}
>>>>>>11. g3 {+5.25/9 7:14m} Qh3 {24s (Dh5)} 12. Bxc6+ {+4.55/7
>>>>>>25s} Kf8 {16s} 13. Be8 {+1.03/8 58s} Rxe8 {9s} 14. Ne6+
>>>>>>{-9.85/8 46s} fxe6 {25s} 15. Qc6 {-M17/8 20s} Nf5 {23s
>>>>>>(Sg8)} 16. Bh6 {-M3/11 24s} Rxh6 {2s (Dxh6)} 17. Qxe8+
>>>>>>{-M2/12 22s} Kxe8 {1s} 18. b4 {-M1/11 19s} Qh1# {4s (Dh2+)}
>>>>>>0-1
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Mate:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[D]4k3/ppp3b1/3pp1pr/4Pn2/1P2P1p1/6P1/P1P2P2/RN3RKq w - -
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Lets dance!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>:-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Eduard
>>>>>
>>>>>Deep Fritz disagree with Deep shredder's moves and evaluations
>>>>>10.Bg5 seems to be a simple win for white when 11.g3 seems to be
>>>>>a clearly losing move.
>>>>>Deep Fritz can see g3 Qh3 after 9 seconds in the main line on p800
>>>>>but it seems that Deep shredder can see nothing even after 7 minutes on
>>>>>pentium600 and even expects the wrong move.
>>>>>
>>>>
>
>Hello Uri,
>
>>>>Hello Uri!
>>>>When You makes an analysis, then you must this makes with this PROGRAM
>>>>what here play, and not with an another program - this only my opinion!
>>>
>>>I wanted to find the losing mistake of Shredder.
>>
>>Ok.!
>>
>>When I play a game with a trojaner then is the trojaner not always correct!
>>I know this. I know that Shredder is tactical NOT so good like FRITZ !
>
>Well, I can tell you that the new version has been improved in tactics.
>>
>>Interesting was in this game the aspekt that SMK says that Deep Shredder
>>is "never" to beat with a trojaner (German: SMK hattte gesagt - sogar zu mir -
>>dass DS mit einem Trojaner nicht mehr zu überlisten ist). Nevertheless I
>>"beat" DS with an trojaner too - against S5 is this very easy! :)
>
>Well, the play against anti-trojan has been improved starting with Deep
>Shredder.
>>
>>>I believe that Deep Fritz is the best in tactics so I prefered to use it.
>>
>>Ok, yes this ist true, but Tiger 14 too!
>>
>>>Shredder has the most stupid evaluations that I know.
>>>
>>>It also showed more than +5 against Junior and lost the game.
>
>This is nonsense. The reason why that happened it was due to a wrong info in the
>program.
I know that shredder5.32 also can see the +5 evaluations.
Sorry for saying this bad things about shredder but I usually do not
see programs losing after evaluating the position as +5 or
even +4 or +3(I know that it is possible that +5 of shredder
may be translated to +4 or +3 of another program)
for many moves in comp-comp games.
Shredder's evaluation may be better in other positions and
the most stupid evaluation does not mean to most of the cases but
to the biggest difference from the right position.
It is possible that other programs are more often wrong and I say
what I say based on the extreme cases.
We have found out what is wrong and that will be corrected.
>Generally speaking the evaluations of Shredder are correct even if generally
>high. I am talking about the latest versions which you did not see. Shredder
>5.32 is the best commercially available, but the openings book is not so good.
I doubt it.
I remember that Deep Fritz beated convincingly shredder5.32 in
the ssdf games.
I did not look in the games but I cannot believe that it is only about
opening book.
Do you have some result in the nunn match or another match
from the same positions out of book that proves that shredder5.32 is
really the best commercial program?
The main program that I use is Deep Fritz.
I found problems with shredder5.32 also in the game against Diep.
Shredder5.32 needed a long time to find that g4 is winning for Diep
when Deep Fritz had no problem to see it.
Uri
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