Author: Sandro Necchi
Date: 10:27:28 09/07/01
Go up one level in this thread
On September 07, 2001 at 04:00:44, Uri Blass wrote:
>On September 07, 2001 at 01:32:29, Sandro Necchi wrote:
>
>>On September 06, 2001 at 15:35:37, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On September 06, 2001 at 14:47:08, Sandro Necchi wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 06, 2001 at 03:14:19, Eduard Nemeth wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 06, 2001 at 01:56:05, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On September 05, 2001 at 23:17:46, Eduard Nemeth wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On September 05, 2001 at 04:08:14, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On September 05, 2001 at 02:48:19, Eduard Nemeth wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Today the "Ruy Lopez-dance"!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>:-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>After move 3:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>[D]r1bqkbnr/pppp1pp1/2n5/1B2p2p/4P3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQK2R w KQkq -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>[Event "Blitz30',P600,128MB"]
>>>>>>>>>[Site "Stuttgart"]
>>>>>>>>>[Date "2001.??.??"]
>>>>>>>>>[Round "?"]
>>>>>>>>>[White "Deep Shredder"]
>>>>>>>>>[Black "Nemeth"]
>>>>>>>>>[ECO "C60"]
>>>>>>>>>[Result "0-1"]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>1. e4 {Buch 0s} e5 {1s (c5)} 2. Nf3 {Buch 0s} Nc6 {9s}
>>>>>>>>>3. Bb5 {Buch 1s} h5 {1s (a6)} 4. O-O {+0.91/12 38s} d6 {6s
>>>>>>>>>(Sf6)} 5. d4 {+0.97/10 10s} Bg4 {13s (Ld7)} 6. dxe5
>>>>>>>>>{+1.65/10 15s} Nh6 {14s (Dd7)} 7. h3 {+2.37/10 33s} g6 {9s
>>>>>>>>>(Ld7)} 8. hxg4 {+2.71/11 42s} hxg4 {4s} 9. Qd5 {+6.12/11
>>>>>>>>>38s} Bg7 {3s} 10. Nd4 {+6.25/11 1:10m} Qh4 {5s (O-O)}
>>>>>>>>>11. g3 {+5.25/9 7:14m} Qh3 {24s (Dh5)} 12. Bxc6+ {+4.55/7
>>>>>>>>>25s} Kf8 {16s} 13. Be8 {+1.03/8 58s} Rxe8 {9s} 14. Ne6+
>>>>>>>>>{-9.85/8 46s} fxe6 {25s} 15. Qc6 {-M17/8 20s} Nf5 {23s
>>>>>>>>>(Sg8)} 16. Bh6 {-M3/11 24s} Rxh6 {2s (Dxh6)} 17. Qxe8+
>>>>>>>>>{-M2/12 22s} Kxe8 {1s} 18. b4 {-M1/11 19s} Qh1# {4s (Dh2+)}
>>>>>>>>>0-1
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Mate:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>[D]4k3/ppp3b1/3pp1pr/4Pn2/1P2P1p1/6P1/P1P2P2/RN3RKq w - -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Lets dance!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>:-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Eduard
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Deep Fritz disagree with Deep shredder's moves and evaluations
>>>>>>>>10.Bg5 seems to be a simple win for white when 11.g3 seems to be
>>>>>>>>a clearly losing move.
>>>>>>>>Deep Fritz can see g3 Qh3 after 9 seconds in the main line on p800
>>>>>>>>but it seems that Deep shredder can see nothing even after 7 minutes on
>>>>>>>>pentium600 and even expects the wrong move.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hello Uri,
>>>>
>>>>>>>Hello Uri!
>>>>>>>When You makes an analysis, then you must this makes with this PROGRAM
>>>>>>>what here play, and not with an another program - this only my opinion!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I wanted to find the losing mistake of Shredder.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ok.!
>>>>>
>>>>>When I play a game with a trojaner then is the trojaner not always correct!
>>>>>I know this. I know that Shredder is tactical NOT so good like FRITZ !
>>>>
>>>>Well, I can tell you that the new version has been improved in tactics.
>>>>>
>>>>>Interesting was in this game the aspekt that SMK says that Deep Shredder
>>>>>is "never" to beat with a trojaner (German: SMK hattte gesagt - sogar zu mir -
>>>>>dass DS mit einem Trojaner nicht mehr zu überlisten ist). Nevertheless I
>>>>>"beat" DS with an trojaner too - against S5 is this very easy! :)
>>>>
>>>>Well, the play against anti-trojan has been improved starting with Deep
>>>>Shredder.
>>>>>
>>>>>>I believe that Deep Fritz is the best in tactics so I prefered to use it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ok, yes this ist true, but Tiger 14 too!
>>>>>
>>>>>>Shredder has the most stupid evaluations that I know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It also showed more than +5 against Junior and lost the game.
>>>>
>>>>This is nonsense. The reason why that happened it was due to a wrong info in the
>>>>program.
>>
>>Hi Uri,
>>>
>>>I know that shredder5.32 also can see the +5 evaluations.
>>
>>Yes, Shredder 5.32 is better than 5.0 version and Deep Shredder, but it has the
>>same wrong info for passed pawns. This info increases the value of some wrong
>>move in some positions where there are passed pawns. This means that the program
>>may take a long time to realize this and sometime it is too late...
>>
>>>Sorry for saying this bad things about shredder but I usually do not
>>>see programs losing after evaluating the position as +5 or
>>>even +4 or +3(I know that it is possible that +5 of shredder
>>>may be translated to +4 or +3 of another program)
>>>for many moves in comp-comp games.
>>
>>Yes, +3 or +5 does not really mean anything other that the advantage should be a
>>winning one. The point is that if you have 3 moves which are close and only 1 is
>>correct, the program may play the wrong one. This is the problem. So, it is
>>important ot avoid this.
>>>
>>>Shredder's evaluation may be better in other positions and
>>>the most stupid evaluation does not mean to most of the cases but
>>>to the biggest difference from the right position.
>>
>>OK, this may be true.
>>>
>>>It is possible that other programs are more often wrong and I say
>>>what I say based on the extreme cases.
>>
>>OK, I agree.
>>>
>>> We have found out what is wrong and that will be corrected.
>>>>Generally speaking the evaluations of Shredder are correct even if generally
>>>>high. I am talking about the latest versions which you did not see. Shredder
>>>>5.32 is the best commercially available, but the openings book is not so good.
>>
>>I was referring to other Shredder versions.
>>>
>>>I doubt it.
>>>I remember that Deep Fritz beated convincingly shredder5.32 in
>>>the ssdf games.
>>
>>Yes, but the book can do a lot.
>>I just completed a match on my computers with the wider tournament book and the
>>score was 16 to 9 for Shredder 5.43 (the version we used at the MWCCC) against
>>Deep Fritz (+10 =12 -3) 60 minutes for game, on 2 K7 Athlon 1 GHz 512 Mega RAM.
>>Generally speaking Deep Fritz is better at fast games compared to tournament
>>level.
>
>I compare between the commercial versions and not between shredder5.43 and Deep
>Fritz.
>
>I do not see a reason to believe that shredder5.32 is better than deep Fritz at
>long time control.
I think they are different and quite close in strenght. Fritz has a better book
than 5.32 and a better learning. It is also better tactical, but all together
they are about equal.
>
>I find that tactics is important also at long time control and Deep Fritz is
>better in tactics than Shredder also at long time control.
Yes, tactics are good at any level, but Shredder is better with longer time
controls. Just look blitz games to get the idea.
Well, we would like to impress you with the new 6.0 version, so wait a little...
>
>Uri
Sandro
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