Author: Uri Blass
Date: 16:37:13 09/09/01
Go up one level in this thread
On September 09, 2001 at 19:01:48, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>On September 09, 2001 at 18:30:17, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>
>>On September 09, 2001 at 16:53:56, Roy Eassa wrote:
>>
>>>On September 09, 2001 at 15:45:08, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>>>
>>>>34. Re2 doesn't look that great, but even in your line:
>>>>
>>>>>32.Bg5 Bg7 33.Bf4 c4 34.Re2 Bd7 35.Rd1 Bb5 36.Ree1 Bxa4 37.bxa4 Rb2
>>>>>38.Rd2 Rxa2 39.Bxf5
>>>>
>>>>39.Bxf5 Rxd2 40.Bxe6 Kf8 41.Bxd2 Rxa4 =/+
>>>>
>>>>White is down a pawn but has the bishop pair as compensation. This looks like a
>>>>draw with best play, so it's completely unconvincing as an attempt for an
>>>>advantage worthy of +2.xx.
>>>
>>>
>>>How about against 38... Kf8!, which I think is better for Black than ...Rxa2.
>>
>>Hmm... that move looks interesting.
>>
>>39. Rc1 Rxa2 40.Bd1 Rxd2 41.Bxd2 Nd3 42.Rb1 Be5 43.Bc2 Nc5 44.Rb4 d5
>>
>>This is starting to look like a pawn up for Black. Hmm. But would DT2 have
>>given a static evaluation >2 to this position? Seems unlikely to me... what do
>>you think?
>
>Black has better earlier on:
>
>Instead of 36. .. Bxa4 first 36. .. Nd3!
>
>37. Bxd3 cxd3 38. c4 Bxa4 39. bxa4 Bd4+! {not d5}
>40. Kh1 {forced} Rc7
>
>now white has several options
>
>41. Rxd3 Rxc4 42. Be5 Rb1
>
>now black has two winners
>
>43. Rcxa4
>
>white is lost now, the checking sequence at the last
>rows only serves to improve blacks position and grabbing
>the h7 pawn doesn't help
>
>43. f4!
>
>Oh the irony. The bishop is trapped.
>
>I get scores around +1.5 in favor of black here on all
>variations, so it's perfectly possible DT would grade this
>as +2.
>
>--
>GCP
I did not analyze all these lines but the interesting question is if there is a
limit of number of plies when you are going to say that it is perfectly
impossible that Deep thought could see so many plies forward.
It seems that you try to claim that Deep thought outsearched the top programs of
today by more than 30 plies.
Remember that the discussion is not only about the question if Bg5 could save
the game but on the question if deep thought could see that c5 is winning.
It is clear to me that if there is a win the win is positional and the number of
plies is so big that deep thought had no chance to see it.
Maybe you should play a correspondence game against Deep Fritz from the root
position and post the way that you convince Deep Fritz to see at least +1.5 in
less than 40 plies from the original position.
It is important to give your opponent hours to search for every move
in the game.
I do not want to check moves that the computer got by searching for only few
minutes.
Uri
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